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目标片段一个震惊了美国媒体界的历史性事件，那就是特朗普是怎么当上总统的？其实，我真正的政治启蒙应该是这个打了一整个美国精英媒体阶层世纪大耳光的那天2016年11月8号，特朗普竞选成功成为美国总统的那天，让我突然意识到天哪，我天天读报纸，非常关注美国政治走向。但是我非常尊敬的那些控制美国话语权的精英。记者分析员、专栏作家。
来源片段And I mean, I think that a really important part of the research for me was being able to understand how, you know, rather than just be like, well, they are, they have got some policy ideas that are simply not based on the facts, you know, which is a very easy thing to believe about many, many Americans, frankly, and, you know, probably myself as well. I'm not fully informed on every issue, certainly. But to recognize that actually there's a really coherent story that people are telling themselves and there's a version of their activism that I think is deeply admirable. What is terrible is how that sort of consolidated at the national level. Right. Tea Party activists I spoke to, I think one person mentioned they really liked Donald Trump over the entire time that I interviewed people. And Trump wasn't really a sort of political figure in that way. Political figure at the time. No. They never really consolidated behind a single presidential candidate in during the period of my research.
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I mean, if it's really about a small, conservative, traditionalist, I want to go back to what our country was like 50 years ago, then Trump should in a way be the enemy. So perhaps this makes me think that the race stuff is prominent, that it is the main driver. Because if you want to go back to a traditionalist community of the 1960s, Donald Trump is the last person who fits into 1960s small town America. Right? Right. So I think that there's two important things to pick out there. One is, and this is a part for me of the sort of political savvy that I saw on Tea Party Activists, they don't make heroes out of their politicians. Oh, wow.
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但是在过去几次选举中，我们都知道，起码有50%的人，美国有50%的选民会把票投给特朗普。这些人究竟是什么人？他们出于什么样的目的会去支持特朗普这期播客的目的，不光光想要从我的角度去反思这个问题，我还想要观察为什么这些不支持特朗普的精英无法理解为什么会有人？这些人要把票投给特朗普？在过去八年2016年以来，美国沿海地区的进步，文化精英对于播客一开始提出的这个问题，特朗普的选民都是什么人呢？
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Because if you want to go back to a traditionalist community of the 1960s, Donald Trump is the last person who fits into 1960s small town America. Right? Right. So I think that there's two important things to pick out there. One is, and this is a part for me of the sort of political savvy that I saw on Tea Party Activists, they don't make heroes out of their politicians. Oh, wow. They never really did. In Massachusetts, one of the first candidates to get elected with Tea Party support was Scott Brown, who was a very, by the National Republican Party standards, very moderate, very conservative from Massachusetts. And the Tea Party activists I spoke to were not convinced that he was their be all end all candidate, but they also knew they couldn't get their be all end all candidate elected in Massachusetts.
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主要原因就是因为我前几个月在美国一个主流媒体MSNBC上听到这两个作者接受媒体采访，他们在回答我刚才的这个问题，特朗普的选民都是什么人的时候，我听到他们嘴巴里面说出的这个答案，特朗普选民的四种特质。我的第一个反应就是我不管他这个描述是不是准确啊。但是我的第一个想法就是这几位政治学者对于农村人的态度是多么的傲慢啊，因为他们自己也是白人。虽然说在这本这本书中，他反他反思的是，为什么白人农民会给特朗普投票？
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He was sort of like, well, he's got to sell them out and immediately hate him. And then his approval ratings will tank and we'll be fine. Right? Which used to actually sort of suggest they're like, no, I mean, they know they're going to lose in a bunch of things, but that doesn't mean they're not going to still support him if that's the best realistic alternative that can sort of hope for. There's a difference between the activists in the Tea Party and sort of general conservatives or people who voted for Donald Trump. I think that some of them may be quite surprised by the outcomes that come out of this and to the extent that they're made visible to them. And I think that's an open question. But more broadly, I think that so there's not this hero worship of politicians.
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你们支持封建迷信MSNBC也是美国的一个主流媒体，曾经是中性的，但是在特朗普之后，就成为了一个民主党的拉拉队员了。我当时一边骑车一边在听这个采访，我心里面就在想，哇哦，如果当今的美国主流学者和媒体仍然认为特朗普支持者会给特朗普投票，是因为他们没有教育，没有文化才如此愚昧无知种族歧视。也就是说他们的那个隐藏的想法是，只要他们接受了教育，就可以像我们民主党一样支持拜登了。如果是持有这个心态的话，我觉得他们是没有办法真正去理解另外一方的态度，而且这是一个非常高高在上的态度。
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It's always about their right to speak or that they are deserving of dignity and attention in the civic space, right? And so I sort of noticed this weird rhetorical tick and I wanted to look into it. And so the reality is that Americans are overwhelmingly consensus level, like 90 plus percent agreement that tax paying is a civic duty. And that actually translates into very high levels of tax compliance in the United States, something that economists do not think you can explain with enforcement or the role of the IRS. They say that the best explanation is what they call tax morale, right? Which is the sort of sentiment that this is actually what you should do.
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在农场工作很多精英理所当然的认为南美的非法移民涌入美国，从事这些工作，对于养尊处优的美国人来说是一件好事。因为在他们心中，有一些工作是没有尊严的，他们无法想象为什么会有人想要给老人换尿布？有些人会想要清洁厕所，他们理所当然的认为外包这些低贱的工作是一件好事。因为没有美国人愿意这么做，所以我们通过开放边境来贬值，这些工作的价值是一件对于经济，对于就业理所当然的好事，我之前在很多次播客都已经提过移民问题是本次美国大选周期中最重要的问题没有之一。
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But so I think paid, paid family leave is one of the big issues that you could get a huge consensus around. And then of course, the question of, you know, changes in the economy leaving a lot of people without steady work that used to provide them with social protections. How do you make sure that people have a basic, decent standard of living that allows them to participate as American citizens in a climate where jobs are scarce or inconsistent, I think is a really important question going forward. Yeah, I remember, obviously, some people think about universal basic income and all of those things. What do you think a democratic candidate in 2020 should run on? Do you think we should run on look taxes, our civic responsibility or recognize that?
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这也是为什么移民问题是撼动美国2024年大选最重要的问题。从这些劳动阶级工人阶级的美国人眼中看来，支持开放边界的精英，他们在做的事情是工资盗窃，他们把工人的工资悄悄的转移到了自己的口袋中。我觉得每一个国家的普通人，绝大多数的老百姓的梦想都是差不多的。他们希望可以拥有一份有尊严的工作，可以养家糊口，拥有自己的房子。对于美国的工薪阶层来说，这也是美国梦极其重要的一部分Elizabeth Warren是一个来自马萨诸塞兰州的曾经2016年的民主党候选人在Elizabeth Warren加入进步人士之前，