最高相似度示例 · 非人工确认结果
目标片段当然十年之后一切都变了。
来源片段Ten years later, it's all changed.
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And it comes at this critical moment of kind of revolutionary ferment around the world. It's 1970.
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不管怎么样，这是一个全球革命激情高涨的关键时刻，到了70年代，越战仍然在激烈进行。
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There's violence in Latin America and people are shouting revolution and they're saying it with like no irony.
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西欧刚刚经历过大规模抗议，美国也有暴力事件，拉美也有暴力冲突，人们高喊着革命，而且他们没有不是带着讽刺意味他们真心相信革命，渴望革命。
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Well, kind of going back to the 1970s was in some ways really strange experience because it's so different from today.
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回望70年代，在某种意义上是一次非常奇特的体验。
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I mean, you know, I mean, it's not even pre-internet, like cell phone, pre kind of all the technology that we have today.
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因为那个时代和今天如此不同，那是一个在互联网之前，在手机之前，在所有改变了我们生活的当代科技之前的时代，
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For example, I was reading accounts of journalists who would spend four or five hours with a head of state talking to them as an interview with no PR people around, no flags, no kind of operation.
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记者在当时是可以和国家元首单独交谈四五个小时，没有公关人员，没有媒体顾问，没有精心安排的，
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They burn their passports and they just disappear in the middle of cities in Western Europe and stay disappeared for months, even years.
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只要你焚烧自己的护照，就可以在最繁华的西方城市中心消失，数月甚至数年。
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And I mean, that would just be inconceivable today. There was lots and lots, quite apart from the music and the clothes.
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书中记载的有一些人至今仍然下落不明，这在今天是无可不可想象的。也就是说，除了音乐和服饰的差异之外，对吧？
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You're talking about a period where there are a lot of people who are very angry, a lot of people who want radical change, particularly young people and almost all the people in my book in their 20s or even younger actually, a few are a bit older, but not very many.
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许多人渴望激进变革，尤其是年轻人书中描绘的那些实施了恐怖主义行为的革命人物，几乎都是20多岁，甚至更加年轻，那也是一个经济困顿，经济不稳定的时期，中东有冲突大国之间有对抗。
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So history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme as the old adage goes.
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因此那句老话历史不会简单的重演，但它会押韵。
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And some of those people then as now hoped to reach that solution through violence. One thing that really struck me as a difference though was that the ideology was so cohesive, whether it was Marxism or other philosophers, it was a kind of collective action with really clear targets.
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当时的意识形态是高度凝聚的。无论他们信奉的是马克思主义，还是其他的思想体系，都是一种有目标、有明确目标的集体行动。
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It's all framed within this kind of leftist ideology and that ideology is fairly well-defined. We know who the enemy are, if you like, and the people who were doing these actions knew who the enemy were.
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这种左翼意识形态非常明确，他们知道敌人是谁，实行行动的人也自认为清楚。他们知道敌人是谁，敌人是帝国主义者，敌人是资本家，敌人是全球性的帝国主义资本主义体系。
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And Israel was seen as an enemy because it was part of that system. And they're these common words, common slogans, common clothes, common icons, like Che Guevara, who dies in 67 actually, is like the big martyr.
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敌人是美国和以色列，他们使用共同的词汇，共同的口号、共同的服饰和象征。切格瓦拉1967年去世，他成为了伟大的殉道者，他是标志性的人物。
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Completely obscured who he was and what he did and some of the nastier things about him.
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当然，这张形象完全隐盖了他的真实为人和他的所作所为，以及他身上一些更加黑暗、更加阴暗的地方。
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How do we make a revolution? And by that, they mean a kind of massive, radical transformation of the entire planet.
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这个事业就是革命，人人都在谈论革命，每一个人都在思考，革命，认为革命即将到来，我们如何发动一场革命？在书中记载了这群最终走上了劫持飞机的炸毁飞机的年轻人群体中，他们说的革命是一种对一整个星球对我们这个星球进行彻底而激进的改造。
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I mean, looking at it from where we are now, it just seems insane that anybody would try it. But they believe it. But there's one thing that you do start saying, which is, yeah, there's all this shared vocabulary and culture, if you like. But when you actually drill down, there are massive differences. So, you know, the German leftists and the Italian leftists, you think would get on quite well. Actually, you know, there are really big differences. And there's another point where you have a bunch of radicals who come, again, some from Germany, some from Holland, and they end up in a camp, a training camp in Yemen.
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你可以想象，在你说这些话的时候，如果你真的相信他的话，空气中弥漫着一种美好的快乐。如果你真的相信这是可能的话，这是旧左翼的想象，对吧？我承认旧左翼是很快乐、很积极、很乐观的，他们也真的很有行动力。后来的新左翼丧失了这些东西。与此同时，虽然说激进的年轻人中存在着某种共享的词汇和文化，但是我们真的去细看欧洲和美国这些年轻革命者对于彼此之间的评价的时候，也会发现巨大的差异。比如说德国左翼和意大利左翼，你本来可能以为他们会相处的很好，但实际上差别非常大。
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So, you know, the German leftists and the Italian leftists, you think would get on quite well.
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比如说德国左翼和意大利左翼，你本来可能以为他们会相处的很好，但实际上差别非常大。
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And there's another point where you have a bunch of radicals who come, again, some from Germany, some from Holland, and they end up in a camp, a training camp in Yemen. And you're all part of the same group.
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书中记载了一群汇聚在同一个训练营中的欧洲激进分子。其中有一些来自德国，有一些来自荷兰，他们属于同一个组织，我们会理所当然的认为你既然都同样激进，
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The Germans think the Dutch are amateurs.
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但是德国人认为，荷兰人搞革命是业余的。
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The Dutch think the Germans are all really anal and kind of, you know, overly controlling.
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荷兰人认为德国人过于死板，神经质控，制欲太强。
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And then all this history about the Second World War comes out and they start having arguments.
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然后二战的历史纠葛也会在争吵中浮现出来，他们开始争吵。
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They get three of them. One ends up being flown to Egypt and destroyed.
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一架环球航空客机，还有一架以色列航空客机。最后他们成功劫持了三架，其中一架飞往埃及，并且被炸毁。
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Two end up in Jordan. They don't think they need another plane because they haven't got enough British hostages and they want a free Leila Khalid, actually, the famous Palestinian militant.
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另外两架降落在约旦劫机的目的是为了释放一位巴勒斯坦女英雄女战士雷拉哈里德。当时这位巴勒斯坦女战士被关押在英国监狱劫机之后，他们发现人质中的英国人数数量不够，于是又结了一架英国飞机。
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And it's happening in a very agitated local context as well because the Palestinian groups are kind of semi at war with the Jordanian monarchy right in the middle of Jordan.
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因为当时的巴勒斯坦组织在约旦这个中东国家境内是和约旦王室处于半战争状态。
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But the Western governments are all looking at this with hundreds of their citizens now sitting in a desert controlled by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in this makeshift airport. They're called Revolution Airport.
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在今天我们看来是多么离谱，就是有点像草台班子，各国政府当年就眼睁睁地看着数百名本国公民被扣押。在沙漠中，由巴勒斯坦解放人民阵线组织控制在他们临时搭建的被称为革命机场的地方。
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I was reading the minutes of conversations in the White House and Kissinger is discussing it with Nixon.
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书中作者提到白宫的会议记录，他提到基辛格和尼克松讨论这件事，提出了各种各样的设想。
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The Americans want to take quite a hard line.
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美国人希望采取强硬的立场，欧洲国家倾向于妥协。
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Basically, this goes on for a couple of weeks until the hijackers basically realize they've now got something of a problem.
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这种局势持续了数周，直到截击者意识到，他们自己也陷入了困境。
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And it is spectacular.
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而且确实震撼。
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And because of the modern technology at the time, the film of the exploding planes gets onto the evening news in the UK and then in the US eventually.
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借助当时的现代媒体技术飞机爆炸的影像登上了英国晚间新闻出现在美国电视上产生了相当大的影响。
来源片段
And a whole series of things happens that basically means the hostages are eventually released. There's the civil war breaks out in Jordan and the Western powers kind of all breathe a bit of a sigh of relief.
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接下来发生了一系列事件，最终人质被释放，约旦内战全面爆发，西方各国也松了一口气。有一度西方国家甚至担心苏联的航空母舰可能介入虽然最终没有发生，但是这个冷战背景始终存在。
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So by the time it's the whole thing's over, there's this sort of sigh of relief, but a realization that they're in a completely new world now.
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当整个事件结束的时候，人们既松了一口气，又意识到自己进入了一个全新的时代。
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You know, no one has done anything like this before.
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七十年代此前从未有人做过这样的事。
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So some of them will left wing newspapers and in some of the more left leaning countries, you get the response that this is really bad.
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当时在一些左翼报纸，尤其是在更偏左的国家的左翼报纸里面，人们的反应和你现在可能会对我提出的质疑是一样的。
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But you have to understand the background and there are reasons for this. And let's talk about the problems in the Middle East that have motivated this violence and it won't go away until we deal with them, which is a very reasonable argument.
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但是我们必须要正视背后的原因，我们必须要讨论中东问题。这种暴力正是由巴勒斯坦人的困境激发的。
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That we're going to, you know, airdrop them boxes of gold in the desert or nuclear weapons.
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问他们，下一步会不会要求我们像沙漠、空头、黄金甚至核武器。
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And that is because they try and take an Israeli plane and there's an armed air marshal on the plane.
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就是因为那辆飞机上以色列的飞机上坐着武装空警，因为有武装空警，所以截击失败。
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And you could. I mean, at the time that the planes were in the airport, so with the security, more or less like a train station, I mean, very, very light security.
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我们今天几乎不会再去质疑机场安检。但是在70年代，全世界各地的机场安检，就像火车站一样，宽松完全松散的机场安检，意味着截击者可以带着武器直接登机。
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And one of them, I read said, well, there's some suggestion that, you know, everybody getting onto a plane could take all their luggage out of their bags or put their bags on a conveyor belt or something.
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在这些来信中，我读到有人建议，所有登机乘客应该把自己的行李取出，放到传送带上，接受检查。
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I mean, so so you're seeing these kind of debates playing out and basically from everybody from the man in the street through to Prime Ministers and Presidents.
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所以你看到这些辩论不断上演，从街头普通人到首相总统，所有人都不知道该怎么办，他们甚至不知道该怎么称呼这些人。
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They call them air pirates and skyjackers.
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有一些报纸叫他们空中海盗Air Pirates有一些管他们叫做Skyjackers天空劫持者，
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I mean, they haven't got vocabulary yet.
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他们连词都没有，名词都没有。
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So they want to make the point, but they don't really want to kill anybody.
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他们想制造声势表达立场，但并不真的想杀人。
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There's lots of Hollywood films have been made about it all, particularly Spielberg Munich film in others, lots of books about this Israeli assassination campaign, basically over the next year or so, which targeted the Israeli attacks, although actually most of those targeted were not.
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这个行动被多部好莱坞电影呈现，尤其是斯皮尔伯格指导的电影慕尼黑。
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They'd been let down by the Germans and Europeans, which they had been. And so they launched a clandestine assassination campaign across Western Europe, which it's long said their justification to was that they were targeting those who were actually responsible for killing their people in Munich.
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但是实际上大多数被以色列暗杀的人，并不是真正的直接凶手慕尼黑袭击之后，以色列认为自己正在被德国和欧洲国家辜负。于是，以色列发起了一场横跨西欧的秘密暗杀行动。
来源片段
And so they launched a clandestine assassination campaign across Western Europe, which it's long said their justification to was that they were targeting those who were actually responsible for killing their people in Munich. And in fact, they weren't really going after the exact culprits.
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于是，以色列发起了一场横跨西欧的秘密暗杀行动。以色列官方说法是，他们在追捕那些对慕尼黑事件负责的恐怖分子。
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And in fact, they weren't really going after the exact culprits. They did get most of them, the survivors eventually, but they were really just looking to disrupt and eliminate lots of people who they felt were involved in the Palestinian armed factions and their terrorist violence in Europe.
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但是实际上以色列并没有在针对具体的凶手，当时的行动更像是在广泛打击。他们认为，和巴勒斯坦武装派别以及在欧洲恐怖活动有关的人。
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So every single decision you make can cost lives.
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每一个决定都有可能会导致生命丧失。
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And so the British use the SIS and French use the GIGN and the Germans use GS9 and these various groups that the units, the specialist units that they then set up.
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英国动用了特种空情团Special Air Service法国成立了国家宪兵干预队GIGN德国成立了GSG9这些专业反恐单位，
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The Israelis are doing it in 72, 73 and they're using special forces to assault planes that have been hijacked. But I mean, it's worth pointing out with the hijackings that for there have been lots of hijackings in the 60s all over the US, but they tended to be criminals or they just tended to be people who were just trying to get to Cuba. Yeah. Small girls.
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陆续在西方国家建立到了七十年代末，这些小组就已经投入运作，以色列更早在7273年就开始动用特种部队突袭被挟持的飞机。值得指出的是，六十年代美国已经有大量截击事件。
来源片段
But I mean, it's worth pointing out with the hijackings that for there have been lots of hijackings in the 60s all over the US, but they tended to be criminals or they just tended to be people who were just trying to get to Cuba. Yeah. Small girls.
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但是六十年代，美国的截击事件多半是犯罪分子，或者只是想飞往古巴的人，它的目标较小。
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And obviously that wasn't going to work in the 70s.
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但这种做法在七十年代已经不再可行。
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Spanish and French were basically like, we'll pay their answer and get them back.
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英国和美国的态度基本上就是我们不会来救你，而法国和西班牙往往会支付赎金把人带回来。
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And again, when we've had the hostage crisis in Israel, in that instance, it was, you know, sometimes people were killed when they were trying to do rescue missions.
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同样在以色列的人质危机中，有时候在实施营救行动的时候，人质反而丧身，这个问题变得极其复杂。
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And there's this amazing scene that I came across with German extremists in 1977 when they are under huge pressure. This is the Red Army faction, better known as the Barden-Meinhof group.
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在书中举到了一个例子1977年的德国提供了一个极其具有象征意义的场景。当时的德国红军派Red Army Faction处在巨大的压力之下，德国红军派的组织核心领导人被德国政府被捕入狱。
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Their leaders are all in prison. Their leaders have said, if you do not get us out or do an attack that might get us out within two weeks, then we'll take matters into our own hands, which implied that they were either going to commit suicide or they would launch some kind of suicidal attack inside the prison.
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在狱中，领导人向外部成员传话说，如果你们不在两周内发动一次，足以迫使政府交换人质，释放我们的重大行动。他们这些领导人就将自己采取行动，这等于是一种威胁，就他们可能会在监狱中自杀，或者是发动某种绝望的暴力行动。
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The outsiders, these often younger, quite inexperienced members of the Red Army faction, were meant to do this attack where they were going to abduct a senior industrialist, a former Nazi and hold him ransom against the freedom of their leaders. That was a plan.
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他们是一群更年轻20岁，甚至20岁不到，经验不足，理想仍然炙热的青年被推到了决断的边缘。他们制定了一个计划，说要绑架一名德国高级的资本家、工业家，这个人曾经在纳粹时期任职，并且以他为筹码来交换狱中的领导人，
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And his bodyguards were just, as they would put it, proletarians, normal working-class men, feeling their families doing a job, nothing special, low-grade policemen. But they would have to die if they were going to seize their target.
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而这些保镖在他们的意识形态词汇中，是无产阶级，是无产者，他们是普通工人阶级的男性养家糊口，做着并不光鲜的工作。
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Is it morally justified to kill these working-class men just to free their leaders?
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为了拯救自己的革命，领导人是否可以杀死同样出身平民阶层的男人，这是一个是否在道德上可以被辩护的事情，
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I mean, he's just a horrible man and has been hugely glamorised, partly because he's called Carlos the Jackal, which kind of sounds great. His real name is Ilych Ramirez Sanchez.
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但是与此同时，还有另外一个70年代的明星恐怖分子，他的真实名字叫做Illich Ramirez Sanchez.但是这个人在70年代被媒体浪漫化了，他被媒体浪漫化成了豺狼卡洛斯Carlos de Jaco一个记者拿着这个人在假护照上的名字Carlos以及他前女友公寓里的一本小说。
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Actually, his story is much more mundane. He's a left wing middle class kid from Venezuela who ends up kind of in an expat life in Britain, educated for a year in Moscow, gets involved with the Palestinian armed factions, worked for them for a while as leading a couple of attacks, very high profile attacks, gets globally known.
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但实际上，他是一个委内瑞拉委内瑞拉左翼中产阶级家庭的孩子。在莫斯哥学习过一年，然后卷入巴勒斯坦武装组织几次高调行动，让他迅速成名。
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But he's quoted as saying how he likes to find the things in life and he likes fresh clean fresh sheets and the theater and find cigars and find wine. And then he sort of realizes that he's probably said a bit much.
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在一次公开采访中，他不小心说漏嘴，说自己喜欢生活中的美好事物。他喜欢剧院，他喜欢干净的床单，他喜欢上等雪茄，他喜欢好酒，随后他立刻意识到自己说多了，赶紧补充到。
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And then he so he starts to go, but I am but my heart is, you know, above all, I am committed to the revolution. I mean, it's total rubbish.
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但在我的心中最重要的是革命，对吧？这完全是胡扯，他不是一个理想主义者，他是一个自恋者，他在成为暴力革命名人的时候，他追逐名牌，
S1：2 个窗口回退
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You could look at right wing violence, which haven't had time to look at space in the book, but also really interesting has its roots, like US right wing extremists has its roots in this period, in the 70s. And you have other people coming through with kind of cookie ideas, they watch you like a unabomber and so forth. I mean, all of this, this project starts in the 70s and kind of gathers pace through the 80s and 90s. As I think ideology or the kind of big structural ideology, the big kind of Marxist ideologies, Cold War ideologies, that kind of falls away and you get much more kind of identity motivation.
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我们往往把70年代视为左翼暴力的时代。但实际上，右翼极端主义的根源同样可以追溯到那个时代越战创伤种族冲突，对联邦政府的不信任、冷战焦虑。这些因素在70年代的美国孕育出新一代的民兵运动和白人智商主义的网络。到了90年代美国最著名的案件，俄克拉河马城爆炸案只是一个极端化的结果。他的思想土壤在70年代已经形成同样的逻辑。可以看到，在一个最著名的恐怖分子Ted Kaczynski所谓的毒型炸弹客，他不是一个孤立怪物，
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And other things I found was that how the Islamists were actually influenced by what the leftists were doing. And the fact actually that the leftists were the ones that caught the brunt of the state of repression was very useful to the Islamists because it opened up a vacuum that in places like Iran they could absolutely fill because the leftists were still being killed or been incarcerated or expelled. But, you know, they were looking at what the leftists were doing. They were seeing it as an example. They were seeing it as a challenge. How come they can do it? They're trying to do it when we have our faith and we're not doing it. You know, so there was absolutely lots and lots of interaction and influence and so forth in a way that I think has been completely ignored, as seen as completely. . .
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这些运动如何在国家机器的镇压下失败，有一个长期忽视的事实，就是伊斯兰主义者曾经认真观察过左翼行动，他们看到左翼如何利用媒体如何跨国组织、如何制造象征性暴力？他们也看到左翼如何被政府镇压被监禁、被消灭。在伊朗等地，左翼首先承受的是国家打击才留下了权力。真空。伊斯兰主义者填补了这个真空，他们一方面把左翼当作偶像，因为他们敢于行动，一方面也把他们当作警示，
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The only thing I would say is obviously that in the West, it's pretty much over in terms of the leftist stuff by the end of the 70s. And that's largely because societies worked.
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在西欧和北美，左翼极端主义到了七十年代末基本衰退，这个原因也不仅仅是单纯的镇压。当然，政府镇压是存在的，更重要的原因是社会本身在运转。
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You know, a lot of reforms were enacted, voting ages were dropped, money was better funding for university, better divorce rights for women, abortion rights.
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在那个十年，有许多改革真正发生了投票年龄下降，大学扩招经费增加女性获得更加完善的离婚权和堕胎权。
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I mean, for a lot of young people by the early 80s, there wasn't that much to shout about. Or if there was, it was the environment, it was nuclear disarmament, but it wasn't revolution.
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到了八十年代初，年轻人仍然在抗议环境问题在抗议核问题，但是革命不再是主流情绪，因为西方制度吸纳了不满，在中东情况则完全不同。
S2：2 个窗口回退
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belief in the abstract nouns, right? It's not violence for its own sake. I mean, sometimes it may be, but people genuinely believe in the ideology they're preaching and that ideology, I mean, it gives them a faith, I suppose, that what they're doing is right. We will be exploring the degree to which it's a faith over the course of this episode. Yes. Because I think that for admirers of the French Revolution, and of course, for the French state as well, it is the great manifesto. And it's completely seismic in its implications and its influence. And actually, in France, its significance is explicitly acknowledged to this day in the preamble to the Constitution of the Fifth Republic, the current kind of Republic.
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你可以想象，在你说这些话的时候，如果你真的相信他的话，空气中弥漫着一种美好的快乐。如果你真的相信这是可能的话，这是旧左翼的想象，对吧？我承认旧左翼是很快乐、很积极、很乐观的，他们也真的很有行动力。后来的新左翼丧失了这些东西。与此同时，虽然说激进的年轻人中存在着某种共享的词汇和文化，但是我们真的去细看欧洲和美国这些年轻革命者对于彼此之间的评价的时候，也会发现巨大的差异。比如说德国左翼和意大利左翼，你本来可能以为他们会相处的很好，但实际上差别非常大。
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parts of the world beyond Latin Christendom. They emerge in the 12th century as a product of the kind of the cultural ferment of that first revolution in Italy in the 12th century. And that's where they come from. So if the revolution is to proclaim that these are universal and that the revolution embodies them, it needs to utterly incinerate and obliterate the memory of that. And I think that what the revolution demonstrates is actually the one thing a revolutionary hates
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宗教和民族的矛盾在积累左翼被镇压，因此空间转向了宗教，在那里，确实在中东确实存在革命的理由，于是革命真的发生了，但是它的形势不同于七十年代的欧洲左翼，它更具有宗教极端色彩，更加强调身份，也更加强调殉道。如果说当今的极端主义有一个起源故事，它就在七十年代暴力成为媒体事件，小群体学会如何挑战国家身份动员取代阶级叙事，
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Right? One is the act of foundation, this foundation of freedom, the exhilaration and awareness of the faculty of a human beginning. In a revolution, we start something new. We exert power. We act together. Power is the collective action of people acting for some goal. And on the other hand, there was this grave concern with stability and durability. We don't want to just create newness. We want the newness to establish freedom, found freedom in a way that lasts. We want lasting blessings of freedom.
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在这群激进的年轻革命者心中存在着一种共享的理念、共享的形象、共享的事业。这个事业就是革命，人人都在谈论革命，每一个人都在思考，革命，认为革命即将到来，我们如何发动一场革命？在书中记载了这群最终走上了劫持飞机的炸毁飞机的年轻人群体中，他们说的革命是一种对一整个星球对我们这个星球进行彻底而激进的改造。从我们今天的立场来看，这是难以置信的。这需要你处在一种极端的乐观和天真之中，才会你想20多岁的年轻人跟彼此聊天的时候，讨论的是我们要如何彻底激进的改造一整颗人类星球。