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目标片段第一个层面是它描绘了一种政治的可能性。美国政治的可能性在这个层面，它和1984或者说动物庄园，或者说美丽新世界一样，都是政治讽刺小说在另外一个层面，我们从作者自己的行为看得出来，它把这本小说当成了一个政治行为本身，它希望通过写出这本小说来真的帮助美国阻止小说中描绘的事情成为现实。但是我知道大家最感兴趣的是，这本小说中的人物，这个人物一定不是主人公多雷姆，而是他刻画的另外一个主人公民粹领袖文雷普。
来源片段And of course, the sort of baseline political novel, I suppose, is 1984 and Winston Smith. And whether you buy into that novel or not is really not about whether you can accept that the totalitarian state is going to lead to such outrageous. I think most of us can. But whether it works on the page Winston Smith and his loves and then his final love for O'Brien. I mean, and I often contemplate what would Orwell's reputation be without those last two political allegory of Animal Farmer in 1984? Well, a very interesting writer.
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So if people in America are – I mean, their accents are kind of recognisable as kind of being British to many people in Britain, how are people in Britain viewing Americans? Are they seeing them as basically British people or as perhaps as relics from the 17th century, kind of people who are from the past of Britain, but kind of living fossils, if you like?
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当时美国小说家基本上在模仿欧洲人，欧洲小说的写法，欧洲才是世界的文化中心。你要是想要在美国写城市以外的乡村生活都在模仿，或者借鉴英国乡土小说的写作方式。
S1：2 个窗口回退
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So if people in America are – I mean, their accents are kind of recognisable as kind of being British to many people in Britain, how are people in Britain viewing Americans? Are they seeing them as basically British people or as perhaps as relics from the 17th century, kind of people who are from the past of Britain, but kind of living fossils, if you like? I think that's right. But that actually points to something important in what you just said there, Tom, which is I'm not sure really that people in Britain would have seen Americans in the 13 colonies in all in the same way. So I think they would have seen the southern planters, the South Carolinians and the Virginians, and perhaps in much the same way as they saw the planters of the Caribbean, whereas the New Englanders, they just would have seen as, you know, the descendants of the Cromwellian, Humulus, Puritan types, and would have seen them in quite a different light.
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但是他的辛克莱尤里斯的讽刺视角，不是从一种悬浮的、高端的文质，彬彬的大城市文明人的视角来俯视这种乡镇生活，他就是在写乡镇生活的现状。这种生活有自己的逻辑，有他们的自洽，当然也有他们的虚伪。任何一个真正生活在美国，只要你不是生活在曼哈顿或者是硅谷。任何一个真正生活在美国，其他地方的人都知道他在写什么。但事实就是在过去一百年中给中国人描绘什么？是美国的中国知识分子，确实也没有办法去接触到这个视角，对吧？他们通常都住在大城市，他们面对的都是对中国人很友好的美国人。这群人本来就是一小撮人，他们接触不到很难，或者说很难接触到辛克莱尔·刘伊斯笔下的这种美国乡镇生活辛克莱尔·刘伊斯描述的美国，
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Later, when Edmund Burke gave his great speeches in defence of the colonists, they were all reprinted. Reprinted, I mean, you know, Wilkes Bar in Pennsylvania is named after this guy. I mean, they loved these. I mean, naturally, you know, with these few people in the House of Commons who were saying what they wanted, went down very well. But Adam, just to continue, I'm sure provocatively to our American listeners, sticking up for Grenville. If there's the risk that the British Parliament's position of principle shades into arrogance, is there not also the sense in which the principles of American colonists shade into hypocrisy?
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获得资本家的支持。这个在欧洲人或者包括在我们这种中国人看来彼此矛盾的结合，被刘易思在文雷普这个角色身上刻画的淋漓尽致。最后我想说的是，作者在描绘这种民粹的崛起的时候，其实还刻画出了一个真正的事实，那就是美国确实存在着一群被美国社会遗忘的选民，他们的痛苦和诉求其实是合理的。至少从他们的视角来说是合理的。我当时就在大选期间说出这个观点，结果又被扣上了穿粉的帽子。
S2：2 个窗口回退
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ideal of individualism and self reliance and so on. And so no matter how anti-communist America might be in terms of its rhetoric at this time, and you know, the average American at the time of writing this essay, I'm sure probably truly believed in anti-communism. Nevertheless, it does not matter, because the real enemy is not communism. Communism was one historical expression, one manifestation of that mass impulse. But communism does not enclose the entirety of what massification means. We are dealing with a competition of religious faiths here, a faith in
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他在说这些话的时候，身边的人就一直在说，你不要威严耸听，这不会发生在我们这这不可能发生。所有人都觉得他大惊小怪。美国人笃信自己民主制度的优越。当时美国人坚信集权民粹只属于德国，只属于意大利，不会发生。在美国，恰恰是因为这份自信在这本书中，让他们对现实的崩塌视而不见。这本小说的书名叫做，这不可能发生。但是整本书在讨论的是一切都有可能发生，这真的有可能会发生。所以你应该知道为什么我在2024年美国大选期间翻译这本小说，对于我来说是一个很有意思的事情。
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the opposite group, just as the individual has an irrelicable tendency to get rid of everything he does not know and does not want to know about himself by foisting it off in somebody else, end quote. Europe saw it in the world wars. There's no reason why it can't happen again, especially if Jung is correct as to why those wars happened, because nothing has changed fundamentally about the human psyche. If anything, we're in a worse situation than ever, as the statistical view of reality grinds on and on and becomes ever more totalizing. Democracies also have their flaws as
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所以说我想说的是，在原先的民主体制中，这些所谓被遗忘的人确实被压榨被剥削，被国际经济制度抛弃，他们是失败者。但是刘易思在小说后半部分也揭露了一个即便在所有体制瓦解之后，也依然存在的政治事实，那就是其实一切建制的存在是为了尽可能缓解和克制人性中没有办法彻底消除的压迫别人的欲望。一种凌驾于他人之上的本能。现代人常常忘记你在一个文明社会中，你会忘记最原始的压迫制度不是系统性的，而是赤裸裸的暴力。
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And both of these are incredibly present in contemporary democracy. So there is the familiar identity politics of how people identify, what groups they associate with. And then there's a kind of hysteria, particularly in the United States, but increasingly in this country too, about the question of how people prove who they are at the ballot box. So American politics is riven with these arguments, the Trumpian idea that it's dead people who are voting. It's the whole thing is a giant fraud that the Republican fear that mail in voting was what won the election for Biden, because you can't control it.
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这之间的遥乡呼应，这之间的联系不难理解。因为作者讽刺的不是某一个政党或者人物，而是一整个美国民主选举政治体系的脆弱，一个民主体系，很难避免贪腐的权力荒诞的选举以及盲信的民众。这位小说的主人公多雷姆是一个典型的中产阶级自由派。记者跟今天一样，这群人是在一个民粹时代公信力下降最快的一群人。一方面，这个主人公似乎真诚的相信新闻理想，比如说自由理性，探究批判精神。