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目标片段他也不想只是被看作是修补大萧条中垮掉的美国资本主义支柱的拥护者，他同样不想被视为一个膨胀，政府剥夺自由的威权者。于是，他尝试过几种不同的词来形容自己的政治立场。直到1932年夏天，他选择了自由主义，并且将它定义为介于共产主义和法西斯主义之间的一条中间道路。这个词在当时的美国语境中有多么罕见。我们从下面这个例子中可以看出，1932年罗斯福竞选总统的时候，他组了一个智囊团，就Brain Trust邀请了一批年轻学者、
来源片段He knew that he’d be excoriated for being socialist or communist, but he also doesn’t want to come off as a defender of capitalism merely rebuilding the pillars that failed during the Great Depression. But he also doesn’t want to be seen as an authoritarian growing the size of government and taking away our freedoms. So he tries a few different words to describe his politics, and in the summer of 1932 he lands on the word “liberalism”, which he defines as a halfway spot between communism and fascism.
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I had assumed there was this “long liberal tradition”—as us historians call it—in American history that goes back to John Locke and Thomas Jefferson and is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. And one of the striking things I found when I was doing this research is that up until Franklin Delano Roosevelt—I like to say “no one” but that’s an exaggeration—very few Americans actually called themselves liberals or embraced anything that was called liberalism.
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研究美国政治的学者，喜欢说美国一整个国家从建国那一刻开始就是自由派，对于王权，对于殖民，对于英国统治的反抗，美国第一个建国文件，就是独立宣言和宪法，使自由主义传统的自我实现自由主义传统，可以追溯到洛克和杰弗逊。就我说这是美国政治的自我宣传方式，以及很多在美国之外的对美国有好感的人，把美国看作自由灯塔国的外国人，对于美国这个国家的政治历史的理解就是这样，对吧？这个国家在某种意义上，建国是出于一群热爱自由的人，制度化了自由主义。
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Or there was the [National] Liberal League and there were a lot of anti-Catholic “liberal” people. There are these little flashes in the pan that come and go and they have their own interesting history, and it helps code the word in certain ways in the United States. But as far as having it be a sustained political philosophy that exists under the label “liberalism” in the United States, that doesn’t exist in American history until 1932 when Roosevelt gave a speech to defend the New Deal.
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再比如说美国还有一些反对天主教的自由派管，自己叫做全国自由联盟national liberal league在1876年到1885年，他们反对政教合一，反对教会在美国政治中的影响。但是你听都没听过这些东西，对吧？所以说自由派在20世纪以前的美国语境中没有留下真正的印记。出于某个契机，自由派在20世纪在美国持续存在，直到今天铺垫了这么一大通，让我用一个明确的时间节点来回答这个问题。
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One of his advisors, a guy named Rex Tugwell, asked FDR, “how did you come up with this? It’s not a word that’s in common usage in American history or in the American political world right now,” and Roosevelt just looked at him, shrugged his shoulders, and said, “does it matter? ” That’s as good as it gets. That’s the start of American liberalism. Thus I write the arresting line at the start of Chapter One, which your readers might hate: “Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the first white liberal.
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在Rexford Tugwell的日记中，我们看到他问罗斯福，他说你怎么想出liberal这个词的？这并不是美国政治中常用的词啊。罗斯福怂怂肩说这重要吗？所以我想说的是，美国自由派这个词出现的语境是出于一种人为的政治考量和设计。我们可以中肯的说，读书不成。零是当今中文语境中讨论自由主义相关概念最重要的播客。因为本人广袤的认知和刨根究底的探索精神，不管在历史的广度和思想深度上，都令人难以忘其向背。
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The word as conveyed a broad and generous understanding of the world. In the 17th and 18th century, it also signified religious tolerance. There is this notion that to be religiously liberal is to, if not exactly welcome Catholics and Jews or the wrong sorts of Protestants in Europe, that they shouldn’t necessarily be castigated or murdered or anything along those lines for not adhering to the truth with a capital T as one understands it. To be liberal then means to be tolerant of different religious faiths.
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现代人想象中的自由也是一种经历过重新定义之后的现代版本的自由。那我们就只说现代在17 18世纪，所谓的自由是和宗教紧紧相连的。我们去看红衣主教纽曼写的大学理念里面明确的写道自由在17 18世纪出现在现代的时候，就意味着宗教宽容。这在洛克在霍布斯的作品中也是如此呈现。我们不应该因为绝对真理而迫害别人，这是自由的含义，也就是对于不同信仰的宽容。到了大革命时期，就是美国革命和法国大革命时期，自由主义开始逐渐和宗教分离，开始指代代一政府和人民决定谁来统治的权利。
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And in this moment too, John Locke introduced property as a way to embrace liberal freedom. And that’s because in the era of kings and queens, one way that an individual could sort of showcase their freedom was through small-market capitalism, by being a small businessman and operating outside royal domains. This is where “economic” or what some people call “classical” liberalism is born, which introduces a friendly vision of capitalism as a way towards individual freedom.
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到了大革命时期，就是美国革命和法国大革命时期，自由主义开始逐渐和宗教分离，开始指代代一政府和人民决定谁来统治的权利。从这里开始自由，不仅意味着要摆脱教会的枷锁，也开始意味着要摆脱国王和贵族的枷锁，摆脱封建制度。与此同时，在这个时期，自由带上了某种特殊的经济意义。约翰洛克提出的财产概念开始和自由主义挂钩。这个时候是经济自由主义和古典自由主义的起源，把资本主义视为通往个人自由的一条道路，这一切都发生在欧洲。但是到了19世纪末20世纪初，这种转变又有一种新的转变，开始在欧洲和在美国都变得显而易见，
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In the 19th and 20th and now 21st centuries, liberalism signifies something different, and that is the use of the government to counterbalance the overwhelming power of big business, a reliance on laws and rational thinking in order to allow individuals to achieve certain freedoms that would be denied by those who are just out to squeeze the wealth out of the individual worker.
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这意味着，我们刚才讨论的现代自由主义会在这个时间段经历一次新的转变。这一次，自由的最高使命不再是去抵抗17、8世纪的宗教迫害自由的最高使命，不再是去推翻19世纪法国大革命时期的王权风险制度自由的最高使命。在19世纪末二世纪初变成了制衡企业的巨大权力。依靠什么来制衡？肯定不是依靠个体制衡。在19世纪末二世纪初，自由主义意味着利用政府来平衡企业的巨大权力，依靠法律来帮助个人政府帮助个人获得个人被资本压榨所剥夺的个人自由。
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hundred years,” and she would say no, and I say, “well then what about liberalism before your classical liberalism? Isn’t that classical liberalism this religiously tolerant version or this the notion of liberal arts,” and she and I would have at it, which is really a great conversation to have. So this is where the tenets of this modern day notion of what most Americans think about when they think of liberalism. Jacob: Was FDR’s synthesis only possible in this historical moment? Could it have cohered in a different time and place?
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在美国当今语境下的基本定义给他下了一个基本定义。这是我对播客标题的明确回答。我们现在退一步，在历史层面更加严谨的说，我们在描绘政治的时候，它不会像科学一样，有一个明确的起点和终点。1932年夏天可以笼统的说是过去100年美国语境对于自由派这个权威的或者说建制的定义。但是这不意味着美国没有其他相对主流的自由派的理解。比如说哈耶克式的自由派明显就和罗斯福式的自由派理念不同。但这也不意味着罗斯福自由派只能够出现于美国这个时空之中。
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But in the United States, it didn’t arise until the depths of the Great Depression, and I think that’s where your question is really sort of targeting, is it this collapse of capitalism that takes place in the 1920s and especially in late 1929 with the stock market crash really toppling over and showcasing other weaknesses in the American economy—the housing market, the soft agricultural market, and the international structure of debt repayment that happened after World War I?
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这种对于自由派的理解是一整个自由主义。在19世纪末和20世纪初的大趋势，在19世纪中期的英国，也出现了一个类似的自由党Liberal Party既支持小规模、资本主义，也倡导宗教自由、公共教育。在美国自由派这个词，真正的崛起，必须要等到大萧条这个契机的出现。1929年的股市崩盘，不仅打击了金融体系，还暴露了住房、农业和国际债务偿还结构的脆弱。1930年初，美国有四分之一的人口失业，在一些城市甚至高达50%加上自然灾难自由主义。
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And that was one of the significant things that had been lost in the depths of the Great Depression, was hope in the American dream, to sort of put it in catchy phrases. And he helped restore that, not only by this simple notion that he was actually doing something, not only by the simple notion that he actually had a philosophy that was not a set of policies, but it was a sort of liberalism, as we call it, where the government should intervene in the American population’s lives when they demand it and when they need it.
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在过个几十年电视机崛起的时候，不光可以在声音中听到总统，还可以在图像中看到总统，这也是科技带来的进一步民主化智能手机上的社交媒体给美国政治带来的改变是这一整个趋势中的最新变体。罗斯福新政的一个重大成就。除了经济层面的效果，就是恢复了美国人对美国梦的信心。他不仅提出了一套政策，更提出了一套哲学。当人民需要的时候，政府应当介入他们的生活。这种罗斯福带来的自由主义，帮助恢复了美国梦的希望，让美国人重新相信他们能够实现中产阶级的生活。
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But it was a real sense of restoration of hope, that the American dream could prosper, that this notion that Americans could achieve, could achieve middle-class status as we like to come to think of it today. And this was one of the real accomplishments of mid-20th century American liberalism. Jacob: The sheer scale of state capacity on display in the New Deal remains very impressive. When you look back at FDR’s liberalism, what were its central accomplishments?
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除了经济层面的效果，就是恢复了美国人对美国梦的信心。他不仅提出了一套政策，更提出了一套哲学。当人民需要的时候，政府应当介入他们的生活。这种罗斯福带来的自由主义，帮助恢复了美国梦的希望，让美国人重新相信他们能够实现中产阶级的生活。这是二十世纪中期美国自由主义的真正成就。所有研究罗斯福新政的历史学家都强调一个观点，那就是罗斯福新政的真正实际作用，是巩固资本主义秩序保存续命资本主义秩序调节规制，
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He wasn’t, as I say in the book, he wasn’t mandating Moscow apartments that everybody shared the same square footage, but instead he was passing laws that built the suburbs, and that allowed people to get higher education so that they could go on and make as much money as they wanted. There was a pretty stiff tax structure that went up to as high as 91% for the highest earners in American life. He did want to make sure that the economic inequalities that existed in the earlier progressive era period were no longer able to exist.
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为了保住资本主义，必须对其进行大规模的规制，这是新政的本质。他并没有像苏联那样强制大家住进统一面积的莫斯科公寓，而是通过立法推动郊区建设，让人们接受高等教育，从而能够自由的追求财富。当然，他也设立了非常高的累进税制，在罗斯福统治时期最高的边际税率高达91%以确保进步时代所形成的巨大社会不平等不再重现，即使财富依然存在，也必须通过征税让资本主义创造的好处，汇集社会各个阶层。
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Like one of the things to remember about the New Deal, that it was designed to preserve a capitalist liberalism, a capitalist sense of freedom, but it was designed to ensure that those riches that were created by the system trickled down in a very significant way, not by hope or happenstance, but by government mandate, to ensure that it extended all the way throughout the American population. I think that in doing so, some lasting components of it was things like social security that we still have today, and some basic floor, some basic bottoms by which the poorest Americans might not fall behind.
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即使财富依然存在，也必须通过征税让资本主义创造的好处，汇集社会各个阶层。从哲学层面来看，新政是为了保住资本主义自由的同时，确保这一制度创造的财富不是在偶然的向下渗透，而是由政府强制性的向下渗透。在社会中普遍分享他的持久成果，包括社会保障制度最低保障线，确保最贫穷的美国人，不至于彻底被社会甩开。这既是一种哲学理念，也是落实在法治里面的新政最持久的遗产。在罗斯福时代和他并肩同行的罗斯福自由主义。
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He thought that capitalism was naturally always going to tilt towards an oligarchical structure, and it was going to always force laborers to sweat on behalf of somebody else, and to have to give up some of their value of labor, to use sort of Marxian language, in order to make other people wealthier.
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在杜威的大量著作中，我们可以看得出来，他始终认为资本主义天生会滑向寡头化，寡头倾向，是资本主义的原始倾向，迫使劳动者为他人流泪哦，不是流泪。刘汉让渡自己的劳动价值，这其实就是马克思的术语了嘛，对吧？让渡劳动价值来成就他人财富。杜威可以说是站在罗斯福的左边，马克思的右边中间的这么一个人，比罗斯福更靠近马克思。杜威不是马克思主义者，但是他在寻找一种更公平公正的治理结构。与此同时，他的另外一大追求是建构一个超越宗教的伦理体系，能够推动人们自觉为社会行善、承担责任，
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I’d say that FDR and John Dewey were sort of side by side. Dewey wanted to have sort of more community and more communal spirit. And he thought that only by expanding the notion of community could individuals be free. And FDR was sort of more sympathetic with the notion that tilting the scales a little bit towards more individualism while acknowledging nonetheless the communal responsibilities that we have would be a happier and maybe more politically possible way forward. Nonetheless, Dewey was aware that FDR was on the right track.
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与此同时，他的另外一大追求是建构一个超越宗教的伦理体系，能够推动人们自觉为社会行善、承担责任，这是胡适的老师。但是在三四十年代的美国政治语境中，罗斯福和杜威可以说是并肩同行，各有重心。杜威更强调，共同体认为，只有扩展共同体意识，个体才能够自由，而罗斯福则更倾向于保留在保留个体自由的同时，适度的承担共同体责任。这样的话或许更具有政治可行性。杜威承认，罗斯福走的是走在正确道路上的。
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Dewey still wrote op-eds critiquing FDR for being too kind to the bankers, he also grabbed onto the liberalism that FDR had resuscitated in the American political world. He tried to take the Lockean sense of property and freedom and update it with Jeremy Bentham through the utilitarians in Britain. And throughout the 1930s he asked: What is liberalism? Who is a liberal? How can we have social action and economic justice in our society? Liberalism is the answer and let’s redefine it in the following philosophical ways.
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杜威承认，罗斯福走的是走在正确道路上的。他常在社论里，杜威常在社论里面批评罗斯福，对于银行家过于宽容，但是他也在积极吸收罗斯福所复活的自由主义。他尝试把洛克的财富财产与自由概念结合。英国公立主义者，比如说边庆边庆加以更新。一整个1930年代，我们可以说罗斯福是自由派政治实践的手臂，而杜威则提供了思想根基。他们虽然说略有紧张，但是共同推动了今天美国人和中国人视为理所当然的自由主义。
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So, I see FDR as really the political arm and John Dewey as providing the philosophical underpinnings of that. But they worked side by side, if in tension, to really develop this thing that you and I take for granted that’s called liberalism. Jacob: The liberal order bears enormous fruit in the 50s and 60s. At the same time, by the late 60s, the liberal consensus started to crack up. So, just as liberals reached their zenith, what set the stage for the liberals’ demise?
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他尝试把洛克的财富财产与自由概念结合。英国公立主义者，比如说边庆边庆加以更新。一整个1930年代，我们可以说罗斯福是自由派政治实践的手臂，而杜威则提供了思想根基。他们虽然说略有紧张，但是共同推动了今天美国人和中国人视为理所当然的自由主义。在我讨论美国自由主义秩序衰败之前，美国主流开始攻击罗斯福新政建立的自由主义秩序之前，我们必须要承认罗斯福新政的自由主义秩序。在五六十年代硕果累累。
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Both parties, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, align with this sort of notion of liberalism—that the government needs to be used to buttress the power of big business and can be used in a very powerful and significant way to regulate the economy and to significantly govern Americans lives in ways that they hadn’t before. Dwight Eisenhower is on board with this plan. Both parties embrace what historians, Gary Gerstle especially, have called the New Deal order. What were its accomplishments? Well, you get less income inequality than at any time in American history before or since.
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罗斯福之后的民主党共和党都接受了他的自由主义观念，那就是政府必须用来制衡大企业的力量，政府必须要强有力的监管经济，深入治理美国人的生活，这是前所未有的。甚至爱森豪威尔总统也赞成这一点，所谓的新政秩序带来的成就是什么？我觉得研究新政的美国政治家在广义上都会同意他让美国在历史上收入不平等，降低到了最低点。美国中产阶级在罗斯福新政期间得到了前所未有的扩张，高等教育得到了前所未有的扩张。
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The crack-up of liberalism, as you called it in your question, is where you get the greatest expansion of the American middle class that we’ve ever seen. Where you get this expansion of the middle class, you get higher education. Why? Because the government subsidizes education through the GI Bill, which was FDR’s thank-you present to the soldiers who fought during World War II. The GI Bill also prompts the expansion of home ownership, especially the development of the suburbs, because of guaranteed the home loans.
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甚至爱森豪威尔总统也赞成这一点，所谓的新政秩序带来的成就是什么？我觉得研究新政的美国政治家在广义上都会同意他让美国在历史上收入不平等，降低到了最低点。美国中产阶级在罗斯福新政期间得到了前所未有的扩张，高等教育得到了前所未有的扩张。美国通过美国政府通过退伍军人法案GI Bill为二战退伍老兵提供补贴，让他们免费上大学，推动了教育和郊区住房的发展。就是你看今天网上那些保守派拼命想要回归的那种50年代传统美国景象就是被罗斯福这个自由派创造的，
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And pushing into other regions of American life, you get a regime of religious tolerance through Supreme Court cases, leading to the acceptability of Catholics and Jews as normative participants in American life. Today, in fact, our Supreme Court justices are six Catholics, three Jews, and zero Protestants. You also see the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, the Housing Rights Act of 1968. Now, of course, these weren’t just put through by white liberals. Black activists and an upswelling of the population played a large role.
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通过政府扩张才能创造这种这种美国郊区的家庭主妇围着围裙做饭，男人出去打工挣钱，女人穿着漂亮小裙子给男人做饭的这种男欢女爱的黄金时代，就是美国现在很多右翼想要憧憬的人间天堂，是只有在罗斯福政府提供了大量的政府福利的扩张前提下才能够出现的场景。除此之外，还出现了罗斯福的新政时代，出现了宗教宽容的制度化。天主教徒和犹太人逐渐成为美国主流社会的合法参与者，自由派在20世纪中期也硕果累累。通过64年民权法案65年投票权法案68年的住房权法案，让黑人民权得到扩张。还有在国会里，当年支持这些法案的人，是普遍会称自己为自由派的自由派。在二世纪中期的另外一项巨大成就是在65年通过的移民法案Hardseller Immigration Act开放了美国移民制度，
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It’s something citizens of the world need to think about. But to start, racial exclusion in society was not merely the midcentury liberals’ creation. For example, one accomplishment of mid-20th century liberals was the 1965 passage of the Hart-Celler Immigration Act, which opened up our immigration system. It allowed immigration from Asia, from Africa, and from Latin America in the way that the restrictive immigration policies of 1924, and especially 1929, prevented.
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还有在国会里，当年支持这些法案的人，是普遍会称自己为自由派的自由派。在二世纪中期的另外一项巨大成就是在65年通过的移民法案Hardseller Immigration Act开放了美国移民制度，允许来自亚洲、非洲和拉丁美洲的移民。要知道，在1929年之前的严格移民法，几乎彻底杜绝了这种移民的可能性。但是我们必须要考虑的是，美国罗斯福给美国自由派奠定的基调就是福利国家的扩张，政府福利对更广泛人群的覆盖。它的重大前提是，它发生在美国社会相对同质化、移民率极低的时期，大萧条情景之惨淡，以及二战给美国内部营造了一种前所未有的统一团结的紧迫性就很明显。
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The first that I describe comes from the right: on the right you get the likes of William F. Buckley and Whittaker Chambers, who were criticizing mid-20th century liberalism as quasi-socialism and the road to communism. The “liberal establishment”—which is a Buckley coinage—derided in the pages of National Review was really out to get you, so the right needed to guard against liberalism because it represented a creeping erosion of freedoms.
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我们快速的概括一下内奇播客的主人公威廉巴克利还有Whitaker Chambers这样的人把20世纪中期的自由主义批为准。社会主义通往共产主义的道路。巴克利在他创立的杂志《国家评论》中创造了一个概念，叫做liberal establishment自由建制派。这个词意思是他要剥夺你的自由，因此必须被防范1959年。巴克利写下了他的一本书，叫做《摆脱自由主义》Up from liberalism.他的标题直接借用的是美国一个黑人民权运动家，就早期就是1901年左右的一个早期黑人民权运动家Booker T. Washington写的Up from slavery就摆脱奴隶制。
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The most expansive book that Buckley ever wrote about his own political philosophy comes in 1959 (he was a “salesman,” as he called himself; he wasn’t a philosopher, he let others do the heavy lifting), when he wrote a book called Up From Liberalism . Buckley borrowedd his title from Up From Slavery and made a very direct parallel between chattel slavery of the 19th century and 20th century liberalism. He tried to describe how Americans could come up from liberalism. So liberalism became the key enemy for those on the right.
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这个词意思是他要剥夺你的自由，因此必须被防范1959年。巴克利写下了他的一本书，叫做《摆脱自由主义》Up from liberalism.他的标题直接借用的是美国一个黑人民权运动家，就早期就是1901年左右的一个早期黑人民权运动家Booker T. Washington写的Up from slavery就摆脱奴隶制。也就是说，巴克利的这本《摆脱自由主义》把19世纪的奴隶制和20世纪的自由主义直接类比暗示美国人必须从中解放自己，
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Goldwater might be the first moment of national success, but an engine of critique liberalism on the right revs up in the 1970s and under Reagan. A second line of critique comes from a similar engine on the left that comes from the likes of Dissent magazine, which is sort of a parallel to National Review . Figures like Irving Howe, Norman Mailer, Saul Alinsky, and thinkers on the left who argued that mainstream liberalism had tied Americans to the yoke of capitalism. In short, liberalism was too friendly with capitalists.
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也就是说，巴克利的这本《摆脱自由主义》把19世纪的奴隶制和20世纪的自由主义直接类比暗示美国人必须从中解放自己，摆脱自由主义。在他看来，自由主义成了头号敌人哥德华特的这个竞选是一次全国性的突破。但是右翼真正对于自由派的批判引擎来自于70年代，最后在里根时期登上高峰。第二条批判路径来自左派与右翼的批判模式非常类似，像是创建杂志就Descent这个杂志EE这个杂志起到了和巴克利创造的国家评论差不多重要的作用。
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And then you get the third line of critique from civil rights activists of the 1960s people like James Baldwin, Martin Luther King, Lorraine Hansberry, and Gwendolyn Brooks. Now black Americans have always had a very cautious relationship with so-called white moderates. But there was this notion that maybe, just maybe, midcentury white liberals were going to bring about the true equality that black activists had been fighting for for centuries.
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左翼人物认为，自由主义实际上把美国人摔在了资本主义的枷锁之下，对于资本家过于友好第三条批判路径来自60年代的黑人民权运动。詹姆斯·鲍德温，你知道我的朋友吴奇还翻译过他的书吗？给大家推荐詹姆斯·鲍德温就James Baldwin马丁·路德金，还有另外一个叫做Lorraine Hensberry还有什么Gwendolyn Brooks等等。黑人知识分子和民权运动者发起质疑。他们认为，白人自由派愿意推动法律层面的废除种族隔离制度，但是并不致力于真正的实现经济和社会层面的平等，
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And starting in 1963 and 1964—you can see this exact moment in late 63 and 64—black activists turned against what they saw as the limited possibilities and limited willingness of white liberals to truly bring about racial equality. Sure, the white liberals will pass laws that end segregation, but will they bring about economic and social equality in the United States? And they turn against them as well. So liberalism came under fire from the right, the left, and civil rights advocates. We still see these three lines of attack today.
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给大家推荐詹姆斯·鲍德温就James Baldwin马丁·路德金，还有另外一个叫做Lorraine Hensberry还有什么Gwendolyn Brooks等等。黑人知识分子和民权运动者发起质疑。他们认为，白人自由派愿意推动法律层面的废除种族隔离制度，但是并不致力于真正的实现经济和社会层面的平等，转而反对白人自由派自由主义开始在20世纪后期同时遭到左翼右翼、黑人民权派三方面的攻击。这三条批判路径直到今天仍然存在，只要自由派犯错，就会被放大成自由主义整体的问题。
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Once these three lines of attack were expressed in America—be it by newspapers, magazines, a pillar of YAF Republicans or, on the left, Students for Democratic Society activists—critique was constantly pushing the liberal center. Anytime liberals made a mistake, there is a huge outcry suggesting that liberalism as a whole is faulty. In the 1960s and 1970s, on the left the Vietnam War gets pinned—rightfully so—on Lyndon B. Johnson, who was achieving a lot of liberal policies through the Great Society. Nonetheless, all of those liberal policies were seen in the shadow of the Vietnam War.
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他们认为，白人自由派愿意推动法律层面的废除种族隔离制度，但是并不致力于真正的实现经济和社会层面的平等，转而反对白人自由派自由主义开始在20世纪后期同时遭到左翼右翼、黑人民权派三方面的攻击。这三条批判路径直到今天仍然存在，只要自由派犯错，就会被放大成自由主义整体的问题。在六七十年代，左翼将越南战争的责任完全合理的归咎于那个自由派总统林登约翰逊，他也通过大社会的改革，实现了很多自由派的政策。就20世纪美国历史来看，自由主义在20世纪后期，越来越多的被公众视为技术官僚、官僚主义者，
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One was sort of the way that the Vietnam War was managed, and LBJ certainly deserves a lot of critique for the expansion of the Vietnam War. The other [big mistake] is the revulsion against the busing initiatives of the early 1970s. For those who don’t know, in the 1970s this was an effort create a more egalitarian society and listen to Black civil rights advocates who wanted to do more than merely take down segregation laws. Well, let’s see if Black people and White people will live in the same neighborhoods and then we can have racially blended schools.
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我们去看那些抵制自由派的左翼右翼黑人民权派能够达成共识的最大的那两个对于自由派政策的反感。在我的总结中主要来自于两个在六十年代末七十年代初的政策，第一个是越南战争的处理方式以及越战的升级。第二个是中国人更加没有了解的发生。在七十年代初的校车计划，这项计划的初衷是自由派，倾听了黑人民权活动家的呼声。为了推动社会平等，不仅仅要废除隔离法，还要在实际层面让白人和黑人真正融入，彼此，怎么融入，
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So let’s bus kids from predominantly White neighborhoods into predominantly Black schools and vice versa, and so the schools will be racially integrated, these kids won’t grow up as racists, and then they will solve the housing problem,” a theory which contained all sorts of flaws. First off, anytime you invoke children, you’re going to get a huge response. And secondly, I think there was a shortcoming of liberals to recognize the politics at play in our society. How did the busing issue play out?
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为了推动社会平等，不仅仅要废除隔离法，还要在实际层面让白人和黑人真正融入，彼此，怎么融入，让小孩上同一所学校实现融合，但是在现实层面出现了什么情况呢？就是白人用脚投票，你黑人搬进来了，我就搬走了。政府难道还要逼我不能够卖房，那不可能嘛。结果，美国政府在七十年代初推出了一个校车计划，强行实现种族融合，强行解决住房隔离问题，让黑人白人一家亲，我讲到这，你应该听得出来这个美好理想背后的理论漏洞之巨大，而且一旦牵扯到孩子，你在选民中的反弹会比你我觉得会比你去直接扣人家工资要来的更加强烈。
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It wasn’t white kids from rich neighborhoods who had their children bussed to poor Black neighborhoods, but white working-class kids who were taken from their working-class neighborhoods into black neighborhoods, and vice versa. This prompted revulsion from the white working class against the liberal elites who tried to create equality in American life at the cost of my children and not their own children. The white working class felt like white liberals were elites, “limousine liberals,” driving around and sending their kids to private schools instead of actually enduring the consequences of their own actions.
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你影响的是底层中产阶级和工人阶级，中产阶级的白人孩子被一车一车的拉到黑人社区上学。中产阶级的黑人孩子被一车一车的拉到白人社区上学。这导致了什么？工人阶级和底层中产开始对自由派精英极度反感。你把自己的平等理念强加在我们身上，自己开着豪车，把小孩送去私立学校，不用承担后果。精英想出的这些冠冕堂皇的点子富人免受政策之苦，工人阶级承担代价。
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We were living in a situation where many Americans loved liberalism, at least certain aspects of liberalism, but they didn’t call it by that name and hated liberals and pinned all the flaws of liberals on liberalism. Americans loved Social Security. They loved Medicare. They didn’t want to live in a military state. They loved free speech. They loved freedom of expression. They loved free worship They loved all these things in terms in our Constitution. Today, the Trump 2. 0 regime is attacking some of the signature components of American liberalism. We will see how the American electorate responds to that.
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我去年发布了一期播客第52期，当代美国语境的自由派究竟代表了什么？我在里面就说过，当今天的美国语境中，你说你自己是一个自由派的时候，通常有各种各样的含义。很多美国人仍然热爱自由主义，但是不愿意用这个称呼来用这个名字来称呼它。他们与此同时，把所有自由派的缺陷都归咎于自由主义。有很多美国人热爱社会保障，热爱医保，不想生活在军国主义国家想要言论自由、北拉、自由、宗教、自由、热爱宪法，赋予他们的权利。他们所攻击的这个自由主义的起点就是本期播客讨论的罗斯福新政。
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On the one hand, the right, which governed in the liberal tradition, has embraced postliberalism. But the more interesting case is the Democratic Party. Kevin: I think right now there is a “civil war” going on the left, and especially within the Democratic Party. I think that this is a long-standing tension within liberalism and ranks of the center and far left are warring about version of liberalism will win out, if we even want to use that word anymore. This tension surfaced after the rise of Bernie Sanders.
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但是更有意思的是，或者说更加上位被盖棺定论的是，今天的民主党内部。今天的民主党内部正在经历一场需要自我定义的内战。但这实际上是自由主义长期存在的，在左翼的张力，那就是中间自由派和激进，左翼正在相互争夺，权力激进左翼中还有一股势力提倡要完全抛弃唾弃自由主义。对于民主党来说，这个转折起点是2008年，一方面08年出现了查党，另外一方面出现了占领华尔街运动。
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I think that really the turning point here was 2008, which saw both the birth of the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movement. This time also became Barack Obama’s moment, and what did he do? He saved the banks and rebuilt the structures of capitalism. In the shadow of 2008, we’re witnessing the left deciding which vision of American liberalism should be the rightful inheritor and which will be more electorally successful. But one of the beauties of the right is they’ve castigated both the center and the left alike as snowflake socialists who want everyone to be woke.
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但这实际上是自由主义长期存在的，在左翼的张力，那就是中间自由派和激进，左翼正在相互争夺，权力激进左翼中还有一股势力提倡要完全抛弃唾弃自由主义。对于民主党来说，这个转折起点是2008年，一方面08年出现了查党，另外一方面出现了占领华尔街运动。同一时间，奥巴马展露头角，奥巴马选择的给自由主义续命的方式是拯救银行是在08年金融危机中重建资本主义结构。奥巴马之后，民主党内部一直在争论的是究竟是怎么样的自由派才应该成为正统的继承者。
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If we want to look at the New York democratic mayoral election, we saw Mandami win, and he calls himself a democratic socialist. And I want to pause there to talk about Mandami because his platform is basically two sentences long, and I’m paraphrasing: “New York is too expensive. We want to make New Yorkers lives easier. ” Making Americans lives easier again would be a very effective political slogan, some version of that that would be able to encompass both the centrist democrats and the far left and create a credible coalition that might be able to make a plausible argument for liberalism.
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他们的优势在于，他们能够同时攻击中间建制派，左右都攻击中间建制派和左派，把他们全部都骂成玻璃心的社会主义者说，他们想让所有人都变得觉醒。用特朗普的原话来说，这群人恨这个国家。目前，美国最受欢迎的政治人物，是自称为社会民主主义者的伯尼、桑德斯和纽约市长选举中崛起的马姆达尼，这两个人都是更加激进的左翼。如果说美国历史能够给自由派命运提供任何歧视的话，我会说，当美国历史上的自由派能够想办法吸收激进左翼的时候，就能获得政策上的巨大成功。
S2：5 个窗口回退
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in 1840 what the authorities in Europe thought a revolution was in the 1840s? Where did they think a revolution might be coming from? Who did they think might ferment it? Because they were as people in their position always are paranoid about revolution but where were they looking? Well everybody had in mind the French Revolution, the original European Revolution and they remembered the French Revolution as a narrative. It's a complexly structured narrative. What everybody who thought about these things that means the sort of educated politically switched on elites of the
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今天，我们来继续讨论自由派之前，我在自由五部曲里讨论过第201期。英国人在什么契机下发明了言论自由202期罗马人如何理解自由？203期苏联知识分子索尔仁尼廷如何批评西方自由？204期法西斯主义如何理解自由？205期法国大革命如何理解自由？首先，我会讨论美国自由主义的开端，我在这里说的是自由主义作为一种政治层面的意识形态，而不是渴望自由的人，如何出现渴望自由的人？自古以来，每一个社会都有，苏联有法西斯社会有，但是他们是否形成一种足以改变社会秩序、政府结构以及政策的政治力量，
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proved more connective and more capable of cascading from one place to another than the last. So that is what people have in mind when they think of revolution and revolutionaries. Did the monarchical regimes when they look back at this complicated history think that these events broke out spontaneously on the whole or were they looking for use the word revolutionary you know as a kind of political actor, a category of political actor. Were they looking for, were they worried about a certain kind of political actor who might trigger
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在一开始之前，我想说的是所有抽象的观点。比如说自由这个概念，在每一个语境、每一个人名、每一个习俗、每一个历史环境中，它都会被它所出现的这个政治环境所改变所塑造，这不意味着自由这个概念不存在，不值得去思考。但是这意味着在知识上勇敢并且诚实的人在试图理解自由的时候，你首先要穿越它所出现的这个政治环境，你才可以判断这个环境对于自由的追求是否被扭曲的面目全非一个勇敢的知识，诚实的人不应该做的事情。
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a lot of sympathy across Europe including from relatively conservative figures for the revolution. That was because the French monarchy was seen as a very flawed polity. So there was that. It was about the failures of the political machine, the economic and fiscal disasters of the French monarchy and the enlightenment as a sort of move away from traditional church authority and religious belief and preference for the rational questioning of traditional states of affairs. So all of that was seen as crucial. The idea of the the revolutionary as someone dedicated possibly to a sort of
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试图用试图只用左右来分析政治的知识分子，被我称之为话太多，学识太少，思想懒惰，用左右这一扎根于法国大革命与进的框架来分析，几乎所有重要的政治问题，都无法触碰它的本质，无法触碰。美国政治的本质，也无法触碰中国政治的本质。因为中国和美国在不同意义上都是建立在唾弃旧制度的基础之上的革命性。左翼国家、中国和美国那些在捍卫建制的打引号的右翼，也没有在捍卫那个无法再获得生命力的旧制度。一个捍卫革命的人，究竟是左还是右左右之分的无力和懒惰，在伊朗革命上更为明显。
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some of the classic institutions of the liberal world of letters these were the conduits of the revolution did that give people the impression as this spread so quickly and as it spread across Europe and it seemed to recreate itself in the form of constitution making and demands for franchise and for empowered parliaments did those things seem to people to feed together was this maybe one of the other illusions at work here that what was going on as this spread so quickly was a transfer of ideas because that is a liberal hope why did the revolution this early liberal
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研究美国政治的学者，喜欢说美国一整个国家从建国那一刻开始就是自由派，对于王权，对于殖民，对于英国统治的反抗，美国第一个建国文件，就是独立宣言和宪法，使自由主义传统的自我实现自由主义传统，可以追溯到洛克和杰弗逊。就我说这是美国政治的自我宣传方式，以及很多在美国之外的对美国有好感的人，把美国看作自由灯塔国的外国人，对于美国这个国家的政治历史的理解就是这样，对吧？这个国家在某种意义上，建国是出于一群热爱自由的人，制度化了自由主义。
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the people will get their reward but then the question of course remained what happens if they don't get their reward or they don't feel that they have and in paris everybody knew the city was full of radical clubs there are numerous radical clubs radical journals that continue to write in the name of the sovereign people in berlin too there were radical clubs that spoke disrespectingly of the parliament said the parliament is does not represent us this is just a bunch of taxpaying bigwigs and you know nowadays they might call them oligarchs and so there was this sense i mean this is the fundamental difference between radicals and liberals in the revolution of 1848 was did you
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为了让我在历史上更加严谨一点，我们在这里补充一些细节，我说的不是没有liberal这个词，我的困惑仅仅在于20世纪以前自由派在美国政治语境中是一个一闪而过的现象。比如说在1872年美国大选中，共和党之外出现了一个自由共和党liberal republican party这个党派惨败，然后就消失了。再比如说美国还有一些反对天主教的自由派管，自己叫做全国自由联盟national liberal league在1876年到1885年，他们反对政教合一，反对教会在美国政治中的影响。但是你听都没听过这些东西，对吧？所以说自由派在20世纪以前的美国语境中没有留下真正的印记。