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目标片段因此美国的右翼运动也具有它的独特性。我们把美国右翼放到任何一个有古代历史的国家去对比，都是没有比较意义的。在欧洲，保守意味着受制于等级权威、传统贵族君主教室阶级等等。在美国保守主义意味着保存他们的开国元勋的原则，以及独立宣言。当英国的宪章派为普选权和吴济明投票这些改革而斗争的时候，他们在英国被视为激进分子，他们是左翼。
来源片段And it enables Roosevelt to execute what I consider to be one of the great terminological heists in political history in the modern era. And that is he takes the word liberalism, which have been defined in classical terms as freedom from overbearing government. And he imbues liberalism with his message of positive liberty. The United States will not have liberalism unless it has a strong government that positions people to be free. And that becomes what liberalism in America is. To the confusion of Europeans who often are baffled by the idea that liberal means, if you want a better phrase, left wing.
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So obviously we're going to talk about this more, I think, after we talk about the substance of the book, there's a real fundamental way in which Tannehouse's book came out too early. Yeah. It's, it's interesting to look at this book now about a decade after it was first published, uh, from the vantage point of 2019, from the vantage point of Trump being president and, and the question of Trump's, well, you might say continuity or discontinuity with movement conservatism. Right.
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今天我们来追本溯源50年代的新保守主义运动，其实肯定是有讨论过新保守主义运动的。当我们在说2016年以来崛起的特朗普现象以及特朗普背后所带来的美国共和党一整个民粹走向我们在分析特朗普现象的时候，就必须要提到他在拒绝的是啥，对吧？
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Um, and he admired him as a thinker, but, um, another big influence on Buckley, um, in earlier was his teacher at Yale, Wilmore Kendall. Right, right. So even before Buckley, uh, founded national review, he wrote a book called God and man at Yale, right. In 1951. In 1951.
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但是在那个时候，巴克利做这件事情是开天辟地的。因为当时的耶鲁学生报纸从来没有攻击过教授巴克利对于耶鲁的鄙视，乃至于他对于一整个精英大学体系的厌恶，最终成为了他的成名作，就是他第一本书叫做耶鲁校园里的上帝和人God and Man at Yale他26岁的时候出版了这本书。
S1：4 个窗口回退
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And one, one other note about Burnham is that, um, of all the movement conservatives, obviously, so Burnham was a mentor to Buckley. He was an editor, senior editor at National Review. So kind of as movement conservatives took play, took shape in the fifties, sixties and seventies, you know, Burnham was sitting in editorial meetings, like influencing the direction National Review took, especially it's hard line during the cold war. Um, but then later on among the people who were most interested in Burnham was a guy named Sam Francis, who was, how would you even describe Sam Francis, a super racist kind of forerunner of Trumpism, um, who, uh, there's been a few Michael Brandon Doherty about a decade ago, Michael Brandon Doherty is now a writer for National Review, but he wrote a, an essay on Sam Francis that, so you can kind of see the paleo conservative lineage there. Yeah.
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这是在1954年OK1955年30岁的巴克利终于开启了他最重要的事业。他事业中最重要的遗产，那就是一本杂志National Review国家评论，最终成为了美国右翼的权威刊物，可以说是过去四五十年以来美国右翼意识形态的最高法院。最早的国家评论编辑团队人才记记啊，里面有着前共产党员Frank Meyer有着Whitaker Chambers有James Burnham反正你只要关注美国知识分子圈子的话，
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We talked about Whitaker Chambers, Wilmer Kendall. I mean, there were some other figures, um, who played a role in this early part of conservative, of, um, movement conservatism. Yeah. He names Russell Kirk for one. Um, Kirk's book, uh, the conservative mind came out. All this was happening in the 1950s. I forget the exact year Kirk's, the conservative mind came out, but it was sometime in the 1950s. And it's interesting in part because it gave conservatism its name. Yeah. At first it wasn't clear if they were individualists or how exactly this, this group of, um, dissident intellectuals would, how they, this would they, how they would describe themselves or what they call themselves in the conservative mind.
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最早的国家评论编辑团队人才记记啊，里面有着前共产党员Frank Meyer有着Whitaker Chambers有James Burnham反正你只要关注美国知识分子圈子的话，这些人都是想当当的大人物。该杂志的早期投资者是后来的中情局局长William CaseyNational Review国家评论，这本杂志还为Russell Kirk罗素科克开设了专栏。罗素科克是20世纪最重要的美国保守主义思想家之一，他的著作《保守主义的心灵》The Conservative Mind是美国保守主义的经典文本之一。我在播客一开始说美国保守主义为什么特殊的时候？
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Then in 1965, Buckley runs for, um, mayor of New York city and he, he only wins, I think like, let's say 15% of the vote, but there are places like parts of Queens where German and Irish Catholics, like, like Buckley, Buckley was second in certain precincts. And as, as we've described it earlier, this was kind of the, the realization that religious white ethnics, you might say were right for the picking among conservatives, the proto Reagan coalition coming to Reagan coalition. And that the, and that because Goldwater had not only had Goldwater won the nomination and then, you know, even though he lost greatly, the, the right wingers more or less took over the Republican party. Right. And, or at least they controlled enough of it that from that point onward, you know, there's a reason Richard Nixon won the nomination in 1968 and not George Romney or John Lindsay or Nelson Rockefeller or these kinds of prototypical liberal Republicans. Right.
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就总体来说，你可以说他们是温文尔雅的相对进步的白人隔离主义者。他们家以前在南卡罗兰纳州有一个巨大的豪华庄园，那个庄园里雇佣了很多园丁啊、仆人啊、保姆啊都是黑人嘛。那个黑人对他们家的回忆，就是我觉得我们可以客观的说，他们觉得黑人有可能就是一个第一人一等的种族。但是他也不会把这个话像网上的那些种族主义者一样明确的说出来，对吧？这就是一个手握权力和地位的阶级。在当时南方的天然优越，我们要明确指出两点，第一点是巴克利没有为奴隶制辩护过。
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If you're, if you're a young conservative and you end up as an intern at the national review Institute, let's say a part of the story you're told is that one of the things Buckley did was he was a gatekeeper. So he, you know, assigns this review to Whitaker Chambers in which he, uh, writes this hatchet job against Ayn Rand. Uh, or Bill Buckley says, you know, the Birchers are not us. Yeah. He eventually say kicks out Joe Sobrin, who was a long time national review writer for being an anti-Semite. So Buckley's part of the reason he's billed as like the reasonable conservative or the good conservative in the kind of the popular imagination is, is he had this gatekeeper function. So how do you think that's different than what you described as the Democrats denouncing?
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然后把这篇文章的编辑逼到了辞职，因为说他的屁股摆不正这个事件，也是当时纽约时报谨慎的那几个仍然相信开放对话，相信应该和你不同意的声音。辩论的自由派大记者，比如说Barry Weiss他们辞职另起炉灶的契机。我在巴克利传记中还读到另外一个我不知道的细节就是巴克利对于美国民权运动的看法是逐渐改观的。我们可以说50年代他写的那个南方为什么必须被保留的文章里支持美国南方州，按照习俗维持种族隔离制度。
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And I think the Birch, the Birchers are maybe would go against this thesis that I'm elaborating right now. But Buckley was also careful about that.
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就是我觉得哪怕你不同意巴克利的观点。但是我们必须要说的是，巴克利代表的这种新保守主义知识分子右翼。
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Franklin Roosevelt re-elected in 1936, having first won in 1932. It's also a landslide.
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那么在美国总统竞选史上，像里根这么成功的总统竞选人只有小罗斯福1936年，民主党小罗斯福也是以压倒性优势，让全美国变成了蓝色。
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We are going to stand up for individual freedom against different kinds of collectivism, which helps push Roosevelt to articulate the counter view, which is you cannot simply define economic freedom in terms of the absence of government constraint or government interference. Economic freedom means something more than that. And it starts to sound like an argument between what were later, thanks to the philosopher Isaiah Berlin, to come to be known as the proponents of negative liberty. That would be the Republican position here and positive liberty, which is something more than the absence of constraint. Positive liberty means the capacity to do things, not the absence of things preventing you, but a positive capacity.
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所以你听得出来，巴克利的核心主张就是星宝的核心主张是限制政府权力强调个人自由。他认为政府是通胀的根源，会阻碍企业和市场发展。因此，政府应该减少干预他批评自由派中的集体主义倾向，与其让渡权力给政府做好事，不如把权力像守财奴一样留给自己。这是星宝的核心主张。与此同时，你从他的这个讲话方式，我刚才就念了几句话，你可以听得出来。他是一个文邹邹的知识分子。这种儒雅的讲话方式，现在已经完全从美国右翼中消失了。他是里根的好朋友。
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But there's a sense, isn't there, that actually the American colonists, by opposing this ideal of Parliament, one that's been a very hard one, are actually playing the part of royalists. I mean, there are people who, in England, who call the American colonists royalists.
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当英国的宪章派为普选权和吴济明投票这些改革而斗争的时候，他们在英国被视为激进分子，他们是左翼。但是这些同一批人英国宪章派constitutionalists,他们一聚到了美国，就变成了保守派。
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And is that violence new or was that – I mean, obviously, this is the age of mobs in England, in London. So is this just par for the course, just standard political kind of stuff?
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因为这些在英国属于激进的改革，在美国早已经是与生俱来的政治权利。所以这个50年代的美国新保守主义运动的起点是什么？