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目标片段但是这个大前提在于这些党派遵守制度规则，they abide by institutional rules.如果党派开始不遵守制度规则的话，那这些党派也会趋于接近，但是他们趋于接近的方式，就是比赖你不遵守规则，我也不遵守规则。我们在过去十年中看到的这个逐渐变成主流的右翼民粹主义和左翼觉醒主义明显是两种不遵守制度规则的批判，瓦解美国制度规则的参加政治生活的方式。我觉得我们现在看到的一个倾向是，左翼也开始逐渐拥抱民粹政治，然后右翼也开始拥抱觉醒、身份政治。
来源片段And this sort of sets up the dynamic that we have today where the Republican party never, ever denounces its fringe. Right. And the Democrats constantly do. They do it way more than they, you know, until, until recently, and I think we've made some progress lately, but until recently, you'd hear the Democrats denouncing their left wing fringe a lot more than denouncing their enemies in the Republican party. Um, and that dynamic is kind of set up or at least prefigured by these, um, two approaches to the politics of the sixties. Yeah. Well then this is a question. I don't know the answer to, but Buckley does in the kind of whiggish self understanding of a lot of conservatives, what Buckley does is he denounces Ayn Rand, right?
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It's, it's interesting to look at this book now about a decade after it was first published, uh, from the vantage point of 2019, from the vantage point of Trump being president and, and the question of Trump's, well, you might say continuity or discontinuity with movement conservatism. Right. Um, which is actually a really interesting question because I think it's a little bit of both, but, um, rather than talk about that all right now, we'll, we'll circle back to this question, kind of whether Tannehouse's framing of the book is correct or not, uh, at the end or toward the end, once we kind of give you a little bit more sense about the book itself. Yeah. I think that makes sense. I would say one last thing about this, which is that he, he anticipates the Tea Party in the sense that he sees the kind of vitriolic reaction to Obama's presidency in its early days, um, as sort of representing this impotent rage of, uh, movement conservative ideologues against this figure who they see as, you know, trying to, well, trying to destroy their tradition or, or having succeeded in destroying it.
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这样听起来我好像很随便。其实所有的知识分子都是这样，他们也是他们想啥，你听啥，只不过他们会更把自己当回事嘛，觉得自己脑瓜壳子里想出来的东西都是客观真理。其实大家都是主观的嘛，我们都是在想啥说啥而已。本期播客的标题，美国左翼怎么走向了民粹，右翼走向了觉醒，是我对于近期美国时政的一个我个人的总结和观察。如果你对2016年以来的美国政治有一定了解的话，你应该会意识到这个标题是很奇怪的。
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Like a consensus is a kind of political majority that you piece together that takes into account the different interests and factions in American political society versus orthodoxy, which is like, there's a line and, and the movement exists to kind of enforce and implement that line. Yeah. And as we will get to later, it really is interesting how that debate also has played out in the democratic party lately.
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我还想说，另外一个总体性的想法是，当然如果想论证这个想法需要更多历史证据。我现在只是提一下，在我看来，美国国父设置的这个美国制度的稳定性来自于它的制度，能够总体上保证不同的党派不同的factions他们参与政治生活的模式会趋于接近，
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So how do you think that's different than what you described as the Democrats denouncing? It's not true. It seems like, I mean, I don't know, but, but one thought is that it doesn't cost Buckley so much, um, in terms of his political project to denounce certain figures who, you know, in his percept, you know, both maybe morally, certainly strategically, he decides no longer should bear, you know, the imprimatur of the conservative movement. But that's something somewhat different than denouncing movements, organizations that are sort of actively useful to the project that you're trying to achieve.
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但是他仍然以自己的个人魅力以及媒体掌控力赢得了选民。马姆达尼也是这个逻辑啊，他的这个政策不在于能否落实，而是在于能否塑造一种不同的姿态，一种撕开现状的姿态。这就是当时特朗普对于共和党所代表的这个展现方式。所以说我换句话说，在操作层面，我想说的是，这个社会主义者马姆达尼和特朗普有很多相似之处，他们的政策内容很不一样，但是手法很类似，就是一种民粹手法，他们依靠个人魅力、社交媒体和情绪动员，
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Or, you know, there's a way you can, in which you can distance yourself from certain figures, but not the ideological program. Right. So like you couldn't have gotten any more anti-communist, some of the people with national review, like they actively were contemplating editorial meetings, like a nuclear first strike on the Soviet union. Yeah. Right. So like, so sure denounce the Birchers, but if that's what the debate you're having in, in editorial meetings, what, you know, it's not like anti-communists were, uh, uncertain about where conservatives stood. Yeah. You know, that's right. Whereas I think some of the denunciations you're talking about in the democratic party might be not just directed at certain figures, but at kind of ideological aims. Yeah.
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基督徒男性才是在他们这个话语体系中，他们认为是被排挤在社会之外的社会底端的人群。换句话说，右翼也创造出了一种新的身份。政治。在自由派和进步派那里批评这种右翼的声音并不少。你要是好奇，他们想说什么，你去听所有在中文语境中讨论美国政治的三四十岁男知识分子，他们攻击男性群体的论点，基本上就是这些美国也是。但是在今天美国的保守派阵营中，基本上没有人愿意公开讨论。我刚才说的这个右翼觉醒主义，唯一的例外是一个叫做Roth Dreher的美国右翼知识分子，