最高相似度示例 · 非人工确认结果
目标片段他说，美德无法单独存在，美德太脆弱了，善良。如果没有恐怖来防护，如果没有铁拳防护，注定要被坏人摧毁，注定要被坏人腐蚀。美德需要以恐怖之名被恐怖陪伴，确保自己不被践踏。如果只有恐怖而没有美德，这是可怕的。如果只有美德，没有恐怖，这是毫无意义的。因为美德太容易被践踏了，他自己说，那些掌权者、贪婪者、强者、腐败者太容易践踏美德。他们是愤世嫉俗者，他们是自私自利的人，我们必须要保护美德。
来源片段What he actually argues and you're right I mean it is one of the most striking of the speeches and he says look virtue cannot survive without terror because it's too weak it's too vulnerable it's like saying goodness or the undefended it requires the presence of terror to ensure that it is not destroyed or corrupted and obviously terror without virtue is monstrous but virtue without terror is totally pointless because it's completely vulnerable because the powerful the greedy the strong the corrupt they will always stamp all over virtue because they are cynical and they are selfish and for them what politics is
查看片段位置
30 个展示片段 · 共 31 个展示片段（含上方示例）— 点击展开
S1：2 个窗口回退
来源片段
Hello, my name is David Runciman and this is Past, Present, Future, the History of Ideas podcast. Today it's part two of our three episodes about the people and the ideas behind the French Revolution and we have reached Robespierre. I'm going to be talking to the historian Ruth Skir, biographer of Robespierre, about the man himself and about some of the ideas that he represented. How did he ride this revolution all the way to the bitter, terrifying end? Ruth, maybe we should start with the man himself and what made him before he arrived in Paris and became famous, eventually became world famous.
目标片段
在这里播客的后半段，我们我想要讨论的就是这个1793年到1794年，这个和恐怖统治名字挂编的人罗布斯皮尔，他是一个怎样的人是什么？造就了他在他抵达巴黎名阳世界之前，他是一个怎样的人？还有一点我想要强调的是，我们在去阅读19世纪小说的时候，听到那些在19世纪法国大革命之后说，我喜欢卢梭的人，他们通常会被理解成是革命派。在19世纪语境中喜欢卢梭变成了支持革命，这是因为谁？
来源片段
There are reports of this book circulating amongst his peers. It's by no means just him. And the really important idea that comes through to him is this possibility of the natural goodness of man, the Catholic idea of the fall and of the need for salvation is challenged in Emil. And Robespierre, along with many of his peers and some of his schoolmates remain in his life. Some of them also get caught up in the revolution, but they would have been extremely excited by that subversive set of ideas coming through to them, not just from Rousseau, but he is extremely important.
目标片段
艾米尔在当时的法国是一本禁书，但是在学生年轻人之间秘密流传，广为流传。从这个角度，我们可以说，当时的法国年轻人精神思想世界的塑造，跟今天的很多中国年轻人没有区别。年轻的罗布斯皮尔尤其受到卢梭艾米尔中有关人性本善这种思想的深刻触动，他挑战了什么？人性本善，人生下来是良善的，存在，是纯洁的存在。他挑战的是天主教传统中的原罪观念，对吧？
来源片段
Rousseau is really known for his novels for Emil and La Nouvelle Louise.
目标片段
因为当时卢梭的畅销书让他成名的书就是《艾米尔和新爱罗伊斯》这两本小说卢梭的声誉依赖的是这两本书现在在大学课堂里，
来源片段
But then retrospective vehicles, because the social contract is such a powerful rejection of illegitimate power, it becomes very tempting to attribute causation to that text. And we have sort of stories of Robespierre doing the revolution going to bed with a copy of the social contract under his pillow and etc, etc.
目标片段
因为社会契约论读起来像是一个二手文献，对吧？社会契约论中，对于非法权力的强烈否定，所以让很多人现在理所当然的认为，这本书影响了法国大革命，甚至是这本书影响了恐怖统治。
来源片段
But I think prior to the revolution, it was certainly the wider cultural impact of Rousseau's subversive ideas coming through the novels, coming through Emil, which would have influenced Robespierre.
目标片段
实际上，在法国大革命之前，对于罗布斯皮尔这样的革命家来说，真正改变他们的是卢梭小说中传出来的颠覆性思想结合。
来源片段
That's a very, very important, very interesting question, because I don't think at all that Robespierre was a constitutional theorist or even an intellectual in the same league as Siès. He does have ideas, and some of them are relatively striking, such as he's very clear about the importance of elections.
目标片段
这个时候跟罗布斯皮尔差不多重要的这些法国大革命想当当的革命家，还有什么西埃市孔多赛，他罗布斯皮尔不像西埃市这样专注宪法设计制度架构。
来源片段
And presumably he believes, therefore, that the institutions that end up governing France should be elected institutions. How did he square that with the role of the Jacobin Club? What was the idea of a club as the driving force of a revolutionary movement? Well, the club evolved. It moved politically as well. So it was set up as a kind of talking shop, originally in a sort of cafe before it takes up its residence in the old Jacobin premises and then takes on the name. And it's a club for sort of chatting about what's happening in the Constituent Assembly.
目标片段
他喜欢在他倾向于在议会之外另辟舞台。什么舞台，一个叫做雅各宾俱乐部的地方。雅各宾俱乐部一开始是一个政治沙龙，他聚集着各种各样聪明、有趣的人。一开始，这并不是罗布斯皮尔的权力基础。他更像是一个知识分子，共同参与讨论的一个参与平台。后来，这个雅各宾俱乐部经历了周期性的分裂和重组，就像是我们之前在讨论德国、美国、意大利、法国为什么没有成为马克思主义国家的每一期播客里，
来源片段
And at the point at which Rose Pierre is actually in power, the Jacobin Club is really supporting him and his closest allies at that point.
目标片段
当罗布斯皮尔真正站上巴黎权力高峰的时候，雅各宾俱乐部已经成为了支持他的核心力量。
来源片段
The other source of his power as well as the club was, for want of a better phrase, the street. He was one of those revolutionaries who at a certain point, I'm not sure exactly when, realised that one of the ways to galvanize the revolution, but also to hold the Constituent Assembly to account in the name of the people or the poor was to speak up on behalf of radical forces out there in Parisian society, including literally on the streets.
目标片段
对于街头能量的敏锐把控，他是少数能够看清革命，真正动力来自哪的人不在于议会内部不在于演讲稿。而在巴黎街头，那些愤怒的暴民，或者说有暴民潜力的人民鞋匠面包匠面包师鱼贩子罗布斯皮尔学会了如何代表街头发声，
来源片段
And the big climax of it is the September massacres when the crowd, I got told off in reviews in my book for using the word mob, apparently, you know, it's supposed to use this, but actually it was a mob, went into the prisons and slaughtered massacred the prisoners who were in there, many of them were priests who'd been arrested on suspicion. So it's very early, so sort of first indication of the prominence of revolutionary violence.
目标片段
作为他的领袖，看似在引领，实际上在借力打力这一现象最好的体现就是在1792年9月发生的九月大屠杀。什么是九月大屠杀一群巴黎暴民冲到监狱里面屠杀了大量的关。
来源片段
And then that was sort of worked up into the famous revolutionary tribunal before which, you know, you could be hauled up because your neighbour suspected you of counter-revolutionary activity. So again, you can see the revolutionary institutions are sort of keeping pace with the violence.
目标片段
在九月大屠杀之后，革命法庭上线了，你的邻居可以举报你，你的邻居举报你。他只要说一句，我觉得你这个人有点反革命，然后你就被送到了革命法庭上进行审判。
来源片段
So that man, he reigns or he dies.
目标片段
因此国王要么继续统治，要么死亡。
来源片段
Initially, he's against war, and he's against war for some of those reasons that go back to his very earliest political instincts. He thinks in war, the privileged will benefit and that the revolution will be betrayed, the ordinary people will be betrayed, not only because they'll be sent off as foot soldiers and slaughtered on the front line, which is certainly true, but because then even if they win the war, that will be a reason for those generals to return, and this is almost foreseeing Napoleon, the generals will come back and then the generals will have huge political power.
目标片段
另外一方面建立在他对于战争态度的改观。一开始，罗布斯皮尔是反对战争的，他认为战争只是让特权阶级得利，穷人卖命，贵族获利，对吧？
来源片段
So he originally, he's saying, no, that's not our revolution. We don't need to do our revolution through war.
目标片段
这当然是真的。所以他最初的主张是法国大革命，不需要通过战争来完成革命。
来源片段
It's not that you're taking it abroad, but actually after the execution of the King, it was a galvanising moment for European powers, they're absolutely going to war with France, even countries who'd been holding off before then.
目标片段
后来形势逆转，特别是在法国国王，我们刚才说过的被处决了之后，刺激欧洲列强。
来源片段
There comes a point where he is sufficiently worried about the actual business of government you know that's how are you going to actually save the revolution how are you going to sort out the economy how are you going to deal with this war to start moving in a more authoritarian direction than he would have been comfortable with earlier on. The word that eventually gets associated with that more authoritarian direction is terror and it is a word that he used himself this isn't a post hot label calling it the terror the the architects of the terror called it in part occasionally terror and he talked about terror and he talked about virtue in the same breath I think it's fair to say in some of these speeches I mean some of the lines that do stand out are when he talks about the need for terror in the name of virtue how does that work in his version of this it's not Russo although I imagine Russo lurks somewhere in the background of some of it though Russo wouldn't use the language of terror but virtue certainly it's Russo and virtue how a terror and virtue reconcilable in Robespierre's mind do you think.
目标片段
我们如何保持保证这个大革命？对于自由的主张，不被反革命分子给消灭了我们如何挽救革命？我们如何应对战争，我们如何稳定经济？这些政治难题迫使他迈向了一个比早期更集权的方向。什么方向，最终用来描绘这个方向的词，就是恐怖Terror这个词我们刚才已经说过，不是后世描绘罗布斯皮尔的，而是他自己使用的。他在演讲中开始将恐怖与美德放在了同一句话中，我们要用美德之名实行恐怖美德。
来源片段
to say in some of these speeches I mean some of the lines that do stand out are when he talks about the need for terror in the name of virtue how does that work in his version of this it's not Russo although I imagine Russo lurks somewhere in the background of some of it though Russo wouldn't use the language of terror but virtue certainly it's Russo and virtue how a terror and virtue reconcilable in Robespierre's mind do you think. Well you could say because he totally lost his mind at that point.
目标片段
他说的这个美德是卢梭哲学中的美德，卢梭可能不会使用恐怖这种语言。那么罗布斯皮尔是如何正当化他的这种我们必须要以美德之名实施恐怖的惊悚理论呢？
S1：2 个窗口回退
来源片段
The paranoia you know this is a familiar story from lots of revolutions which is the people who get encompassed in the language of the elite the privilege the enemies starts to include people who had originally been fellow revolutionaries and as the circle shrinks the people who are finding themselves on the outside have to get tired with that brush we thought that they were on our side it turns out they were on the side of the people that we're fighting there is no other word for it Roespierre becomes more and more paranoid and many many people lose their lives as a result it's not just him but he's a driving force behind it he's the one who ends up condemning Donton for instance is it temperamental is it just as it
目标片段
他们是愤世嫉俗者，他们是自私自利的人，我们必须要保护美德。美德是人民普遍意志的体现。正是在这个语境中，罗布斯皮尔的美德逻辑不可避免的开始与政治迫害，结合革命中的敌人话语，很快吞噬他自己曾经的同志敌我界线变得模糊，不断被重新划分。这些原本是我们这边的人开始被划入敌人的范畴。我们原来以为他是自己人，结果他怎么站在了斗争的另外一边，这种心态是偏执在罗布斯皮尔的恐怖统治中，
来源片段
just him it's the whole revolution it's the idea that and then this particularly chilling idea that it's the person who seems to be most pro the revolution that is really your enemy because why would they be pretending to be so in favor of the revolution it's a sort of strange contorted language of communicating those loyalties in a really really frenetic space and I think would probably drive everyone crazy and it was absolutely crazy for Robespierre to betray those friends Dante on Demulon he'd known them from before the revolution he was a godfather Demulon's child you know these things but in the moment he believes they have become corrupted from the true cause of the revolution and he convinces himself that he is not and again even on that point paranoia is such an interesting subject in fascinating novels etc and there's always this element of absolute truth running through paranoia it's what sort of spins that become so compelling
目标片段
这是一种越来越扭曲的政治语言。在极度紧张的情况下的这种忠诚表达要求，足以逼疯。所有人在法国大革命中，他体现在什么地方？就是我刚才说的罗布斯皮尔出卖了他自己最好的朋友丹东和德木兰、罗布斯皮尔，甚至是德木兰小孩的教父。但是他坚信啊，我最好的朋友背离了真正的革命伟大革命事业，他真诚的说服了他自己我身边究竟有多少伪装的革命派，其他人都有可能是反革命的对吧？
来源片段
in novels about it the fact of the matter is as Dante was the first to admit Robespierre was incorruptible he wasn't corrupt he wasn't interested in sex he wasn't interested in money the rest of them actually were I mean it's also one of the pitfalls of making sincerity your ultimate test of political loyalty because once it's known that sincerity is the test then the question is how do we know whose protestations of sincerity are sincere and who's a fake and then you're in a kind of you know an endless spiral you're down a rabbit hole because I think we know that in lots of different forms of politics which is the elevation of sincerity to the ultimate badge of honor usually leads to a kind of bloodbath actually or a literal bloodbath never mind a kind of bloodbath
目标片段
我们可以说，罗布斯皮尔可能真诚的相信他自己确实是最纯洁的革命派。他对于性爱毫无兴趣，他对于金钱毫无兴趣，但是问题就在于，当你把真诚作为政治忠诚的终极世金时之后，
S2：4 个窗口回退
来源片段
But from the moment they sit down, they're facing massive, massive challenges. I mean, France is in an absolute mess. Let's not underestimate that in the autumn of 1791. Half of the clergy are effectively in open defiance of the civil authorities because they have refused to swear this oath, the civil constitution of the clergy. Mass eruptions in the countryside. Peasants refusing to pay their feudal dues to their senior and saying this is completely legitimate and kind of attacking Chateau and kind of destroying documents and things. Hard currency in France by this point has virtually disappeared.
目标片段
1789年正式在政治制度上对君主旧制度宣战的口号。这场以自由为初衷的革命，很快遭遇了现实阻力，我们以后可以更加详细的讨论。法国大革命史今天在这里只讨论一个鸟看图。当时的法国国王路易十六并没有接受宪政。王权在两年之后1791年，他尝试逃离法国，然后被抓了回来。这大大的削弱了法国人对他的信任。与此同时，在此期间，我们也看到了大批的法国贵族外逃勾结外国势力，鼓动干涉法国革命，给欧洲其他的军权亡国对于法国大革命的这个态度，
来源片段
Because of our objectivity, because of our strupulous objectivity. We perceive the French Revolutionary Wars effectively as wars of French aggression, France, exporting the gospel of revolution. Of course, the French never perceive it that way. From the very beginning, they see themselves, as you said, they are the victims. They think Varenne was a conspiracy, which it was, it was a betrayal. And all through France in this period, 1791, summer, autumn, there are endless rumors. I mean, there's a great one here of the Pras de Condes and the Comte d'Artoires are about to arrive with an army of men in black clothes made from the cassocks of, they'd be wearing like priests' outfits, from the cassocks of non-jewaring clergy, studded with death scents.
目标片段
我们可以说，基本上法国大革命一爆发之后，一开始的这种自由宣言，在实际推进层面不断受阻。这个时候，社会就已经出现了，我们必须要保卫革命成果，不计一切代价，保卫革命成果的逐渐激进的意识。与此同时，法国大革命在1789年爆发之后，起初并没有立刻引起欧洲列强的军事反应。很多奥地利普鲁士这种君主国最初对于法国动荡持观望态度，甚至抱着某种坐看邻国自乱的幸灾乐祸的心态，
来源片段
And the person who they think of this, obviously the supreme Marvel supervillain is Francis' traditional enemy, the Austrian Emperor, to Leopold II. Who's actually, I mean, not at all that. No, he's a lovely man. Like his brother Joseph, who we described earlier as essentially being a very kind of enlightenment figure. And his plans for the church have been pretty identical to those of the revolution. It's just a question of who is framing these ideas. The rest is Habsburg history. Habsburg gets such a good press from us. Unbelievable.
目标片段
造就了他在他抵达巴黎名阳世界之前，他是一个怎样的人？还有一点我想要强调的是，我们在去阅读19世纪小说的时候，听到那些在19世纪法国大革命之后说，我喜欢卢梭的人，他们通常会被理解成是革命派。在19世纪语境中喜欢卢梭变成了支持革命，这是因为谁？因为罗布斯皮尔因为罗布斯皮尔喜欢卢梭，他罗布斯皮尔成功的把卢梭变成了法国大革命的代言人。虽然说卢梭本人不一定这么认为，对吧？他不一定应该对法国大革命负责。
来源片段
There's an example in a place called Eitompe outside Paris, where the mayor ends up being lynched in a food riot. He's a member of the Jacobin Club. You know, he's a good revolutionary, but because he's trying to enforce the kind of liberal free market orthodoxy that many of the kind of deputies have, the people turn on him, they mutilate his body. You know, this sets off all kinds of anxieties back in Paris. And actually the Jacobin organised a festival of law in his honour to try to, you know, make some plea for stability. Now Robespierre interestingly, Robespierre is such a brilliant populist.
目标片段
法国大革命爆发之后，罗布斯皮尔作为第三等级代表，进入了法国三级会议，这是一个大革命之后的全国政治协商。这个时候跟罗布斯皮尔差不多重要的这些法国大革命想当当的革命家，还有什么西埃市孔多赛，他罗布斯皮尔不像西埃市这样专注宪法设计制度架构。他喜欢在他倾向于在议会之外另辟舞台。什么舞台，一个叫做雅各宾俱乐部的地方。雅各宾俱乐部一开始是一个政治沙龙，他聚集着各种各样聪明、有趣的人。一开始，这并不是罗布斯皮尔的权力基础。他更像是一个知识分子，共同参与讨论的一个参与平台。
来源片段
Explain to American listeners what the concept of laïcité actually entails in France. As you're pointing out, this is the concept that now is very important to a large range of the political spectrum, from parts of the party socialist to the left, to les républicains, and perhaps even big parts of Marine Le Pen's movement on the right.
目标片段
我们讨论过很多期现代政治意义上的左派和右派。这个概念源自于法国大革命，在法国大革命之前，不存在政治光谱上的左右之分？
S3：2 个窗口回退
来源片段
So laïcité has been turned by both the right and the center into some sort of French ideology. This is the political culture of the nation, which is a big problem because it excludes, it's exclude believers, not just Muslims, but a big part of the traditional Catholics, for instance, consider that this principle of defending the values of the republic is turned also against Catholicism. And it's true. And it's true. There are more pressure on Catholics' parents who keep children, who make homeschooling.
目标片段
身份传统宗教阶级性别差异中全部剥离开来，追求一种抽象的、普遍的、理性的人性基础。这也是法国大革命和英美政治传统不同的地方。法国是自由倾向于理性建构、逻辑推演和抽象的普世公理，普世真理。而英美传统则更强调经验传统、历史演化和现实妥协。法国大革命所相信的自由，在观念结构上根植于启蒙主义哲学，尤其是卢梭和福尔泰，他们的共同追求，
来源片段
And so the question of how you can make space for people from religion, how we can make sure the public sphere is so dominated by that religion, that people who are secular don't have effective freedom to lead their lives, was at the forefront of how people are thinking about it. And so in my understanding, the French concept of laïcité from the beginning has always been about sort of limits to the ways in which religion is going to be a public and a political manner. It's trying to insulate a sphere of public and political life from the private religiosity of citizens that they should be able to continue. Now, I in many ways am more American, I share some concerns about ways in which the French conception particularly is used in the last few decades has put excessive limits on ways in which private citizens can be open and visible about their religious faith in the public sphere, which I do think is an important element of a freedom of religion.
目标片段
这种英美自由传统中的自由不追求抽象普遍性，而更注重维护。既有的生活方式、制度和社会秩序，这也使得英美自由文化趋于温和，容易接纳多元和妥协，而不在于不会在自由理念的实践中走向绝对和激进法国大革命早期所理解的自由，以它高度理性化、普遍主义和非历史性为特征。这是一种试图从根本上重塑人类社会的政治愿景，它所承诺的是一种超越一切差异的人类解放，也正是因为它的抽象和激进革命者，后来才更容易在理想幻灭的时候，将自由转化成暴政的工具，
S4：3 个窗口回退
来源片段
And we'll be debating all that later, but Tom, perhaps first of all, we should remind people where we have got to now. Obviously, by reminding people, we don't need to do the whole previous two series. That would be too meta. But, yeah, it would. We'll never get out of it. OK, to give people a sense, we're in 1792. Tuileries has been stormed. France is at war, and it's been at war since April, and it's gone incredibly badly so far. So France has basically lost these little battles. So politics in Paris is defined by a feud between two rival groups of Jacobin.
目标片段
画中的萨图恩眼神狂乱，双手撕咬着自己小孩的血肉，它象征的是一种体制化的革命暴力，疯狂，对于个体的毁灭性压迫。我们把话题扯回法国大革命。今天的主题，我想要把重点集中在这一段1793年到1794年的恐怖统治，尤其是罗布斯皮尔这个人身上。但是在这之前，让我们先快速的过一遍，法国大革命让他收一个尾。在恐怖统治之后，我们看到的是什么？是拿破仑的崛起。第一次反法联盟虽然说在军事上并没有推翻法国革命政府。但是却开启了长达20年的欧洲大战局1797年，拿破仑打败奥地利，迫使反法联盟解体1799年，
来源片段
Now, this will be elected for the first time in near universal male suffrage. And everybody knows this is basically going to call for a republic that the monarchy is finished. But the Girondins who dominate this committee and who really dominate the assembly, it looks like they've got everything their own way, but they don't. Because now they're having to kind of share power in Paris with this new body that's been set up called the Insurrectionary Commune, which is kind of the local council, which is dominated by much more radical people, and in particular by Robespierre. And if all this isn't confusing enough, Robespierre says the Girondins who are the people who got us into the war, they're actually much too weak and too soft.
目标片段
法国大革命爆发之后，罗布斯皮尔作为第三等级代表，进入了法国三级会议，这是一个大革命之后的全国政治协商。这个时候跟罗布斯皮尔差不多重要的这些法国大革命想当当的革命家，还有什么西埃市孔多赛，他罗布斯皮尔不像西埃市这样专注宪法设计制度架构。他喜欢在他倾向于在议会之外另辟舞台。什么舞台，一个叫做雅各宾俱乐部的地方。雅各宾俱乐部一开始是一个政治沙龙，他聚集着各种各样聪明、有趣的人。一开始，这并不是罗布斯皮尔的权力基础。他更像是一个知识分子，共同参与讨论的一个参与平台。
来源片段
The people terrible in their fury are avenging the crimes of three years of vile treachery. And she talks in her diary. She says, people have had their heads cut off. Priests have been eviscerated, but it's the right thing to do because, you know, we had to save France. Now, the thing is historians have grappled with this ever since because of course, most historians, by and large, I would say, who write about the French Revolution, especially in France, have been sympathetic to the revolution. And here you have an episode which is, for me, much more shocking than the terror. I mean, the victims and the terror,
目标片段
人们会因为政治这个人权宣言这个宣言里面所包含的真理，自然而然的受到感召，然后加入我们加入革命革命派，不需要输出战争，革命本身具有吸引力。后来形势逆转，特别是在法国国王，我们刚才说过的被处决了之后，刺激欧洲列强。其他在观望的欧洲列强纷纷向法国宣战。法国国内爆发内战反革命的人。这个时候遍布全国。这个时候你除了杀了他们，你还能怎么办？我们如何保持保证这个大革命？对于自由的主张，不被反革命分子给消灭了我们如何挽救革命？