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目标片段所以这是我自己的观察，就是中文语境中我们看到的很多这个女权主义运动的矛盾。呃，他在某种程度上是九十年代三十年前发生在美国的这个女权主义运动矛盾的这个镜像版本。如果话说回美国，如果你是一个在美国的左翼女权主义者，你会认为我们现在正处在第四波女权的末尾，那么第四波女权和第三波女权有什么区别？我仍然给大家一个极端简化的版本就是第四波女权开始结合互联网和数字空间的重要性，以及这个去国界去中心化的互联网，
来源片段So when you're thinking about that, you realise quite how radical an ask that was. You know, that's as radical an ask as, you know, ending apartheid in South Africa. It's saying we're going to give this group of people that we've been oppressing for a really long time, actually majority power, and let's hope they're nicer to us with it than we were to them. And as you say, as it turned out, the women didn't do anything particularly radical with the vote. But I can, in that context, understand the fears slightly more than you would otherwise think in retrospect. In the American case, it's a longer story, both in a sense that the arguments for enfranchisement of women go back deeper into the 19th century, the movement starts in many ways in the United States.
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来源片段
The bad idea we're talking about here is essentially the argument against giving women the vote at the end of the 19th, early 20th century, and particularly women against giving women the vote. There was a movement called the Women's Anti-Suffrage League.
目标片段
第一波女权主义主要发生在19世纪和20世纪初。传统上。第一波女权主义的诉求是投票权，他们被叫做suffragette对吧？
S1：2 个窗口回退
来源片段
So that one, I think, does really feel like a very much an argument of expediency. The other one that similarly I would regard like that, there's a lot of discussion about the fact that women didn't want the vote anyway. Weren't there more things that women wanted more? And that is often, anti-feminist arguments often take that tack, which is this is actually only a minor issue. You know, this is a kind of frippery. This is the distraction from real politics. And you often find that. I found that definitely when I was writing Difficult Women, My History of Feminism, in the stuff about women being admitted to universities, you get this kind of, you know, actually women have got bigger problems than this. What about working class women?
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我们到了90年代第三波女权的时候，就已经开始拒绝和批评第二波女权了。第三波女权也是我认为女权女权主义运动开始从一个关心实际问题，实际社会中的女性处境政策如何影响到女性处境？这个诉求变得越来越学术化和理论化的过程。第三波女权是一个理论化和学术化的女权主义运动。到了90年代左右的时候，我就觉得在这个女权运动开始，对于那些没有大学学位的女人，或者说不把女权运动当作自己重要身份标签的人不再会理解。
来源片段
Clearly, the biological differences are themselves different. The earlier version, it's you're hysterical. Now it's that women's biology means that there are particular needs that have to be met by a welfare state or whatever it is. But in the way that these arguments have an afterlife, it's not like the enfranchisement of women settled the question and those anti-suffrage arguments went away. They come back in these different forms. I don't know to what extent you think there's a real risk, maybe particularly in America, but also here, that actually the afterlife of these arguments could undo some of this. I mean, so say arguments about biological difference could play into the hands of people who want to almost, you know, go all the way back.
目标片段
而在其他的领域，在其他的社会是有一些不完善的制度，确实会导致女性是真实的弱者。就是你没有办法体验到这个感觉。所以说你才开始讨论什么原住民有没有女权运动的这个议题，建议大家不要这么问，会得到一个暴怒的回复。这个对方斩钉截铁地告诉我，女性仍然是绝对受到制度性压迫的弱者。但是她不承认美国女性受到的制度性压迫，有可能要低于一些不发达国家女性受到的压迫。