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目标片段就是他们我们现在不光经常抱怨这个选举人团，我们还经常抱怨美国政党，美国政党跟美国选举人团一样，都不是民主机构。美国政党也是一个不民主的机构，它存在于民主政体中的作用是去制衡民主。你可以抱怨说，哎呀，这个美国总统职位不民主，美国政党不民主。但是我觉得很神奇的一点是，我们在历史上去纵观其他更加民主的政党制，更加民主的总统职位。比如说非洲东南亚有很多政党客观的来说都比美国来的要民主。
来源片段They believed the Rothschilds were at the heart of the conspiracy, destroying the American farmer. So, there is another strand, and it comes and goes in American politics. It comes and goes, frankly, in lots of different places and the politics of lots of different democracies, which is anti-Semitic conspiracy theorizing. But this is one of the periods where it's strong, and it's strong on the democratic side. And it comes and goes in the politics of the Democratic Party, anti-Semitism. We all know that. That's, I think, one of the things that's going on here. I'm not sure Brian himself, by the standards of the age, was particularly anti-Semitic. But I think he knew, after all, he's presenting himself as Christ, and we know who crucified Christ.
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来源片段
And then there is an explosion, what was known as a stampede. The crowd goes literally wild. And he gets the nomination almost by acclamation. It is an electrifying moment in American politics. The 36-year-old Nebraskan wins the nomination of the Democratic Party. But we need to explain why talking about the gold standard could have this effect on the convention and indeed on American politics. And this has a longish history and it goes back a couple of decades at least. So to make sense of the power of this, in 1873, Congress passed what was called the Cornage Act, which effectively put the United States on a kind of gold standard.
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高中历史没有理解选举人团它被建立的初衷是什么？历史渊源是什么？为什么会在美国建国的时候被国父创造出来，放到宪法中，了解这个基础知识的人越来越少。所以说美到大选抱怨选举人团制度基本上已经成为了美国以及关心美国政治的人的一种政治正确吧。你跟很多人讨论美国大选有什么问题的时候，比如说尤其是今年绝大多数的人都会跟你抱怨，美国大选在他们眼中不民主有两个主要原因。
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And it also reflects the nature of politicking in America and what is required. If we think, what does it take to elect a president, we tend to think of a national election and you can just appeal to the nation.
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我们今天讨论美国选举人团为什么存在？或者说美国大选为什么不是一人一票的时候，我觉得我们首先要理解的是美国总统选举制度的历史，
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One has to appeal to every state in the nation because one has to win the requisite number of electoral votes and electoral votes are being cast by individual states. And so if you're going to have a national campaign, it means you have to have as many campaigns as there are states in the country and you must have a general staff in place in each state who is going to look after the welfare of your party in that state.
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本土利益是每一个州不同的属于特定的那个州的特殊利益派系，他们是相对更加安全的派系。所以说选举团的选举人团的存在，也是把这个特殊利益派系下放到了每个州中，成为了你要在州主权在州内争取多数，才能够保证这个候选人可以获得广泛的支持。
S1：2 个窗口回退
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And this is a country in which the race issue internally is not resolved, in which cities are filling up with immigrants who are mostly not Protestant. And so there's a portion of the anti-imperialist surge whose rallying cry is America for Americans. So it's not about democracy, but about exclusion and purity. In the episode that we recorded about Andrew Jackson, you said we have to be careful about using the word populist. It can have a different meaning in the United States than it does in non-U. S. context.
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在1888年的美国人口密集的地方是曾经支持奴隶制的。刚刚废除了奴隶制，还在进行种族隔离的南方州。在2016年的美国，人口密集的地方是大城市旧金山、 纽约、 波士顿，这些人口高度集中的城市，高度的把自己的选票投给了一个政客，以支持他获得普选的胜利，这能否代表广泛的全国性支持？当然，这种辩护对于现在很多人来说并不直观，因为差不多从20世纪60年代的民权运动开始，
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And we're going to talk next time about another P word, progressivism, which is something very different and becomes the wave of American politics within barely more than a decade. Do you see this as a peak of populism? Is 1896? Because there was a 20-year wave building up to that election. And the passions are ferocious. That speech probably doesn't capture it. People sometimes say you had to be there. I would love to have been there when Bryan gave that speech. I think if there was one political speech I could have attended, just because I've read quite a lot about it, the stampede, the shrieking, the hysteria, an audience of many thousands of people losing their minds.
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在2016年的美国，人口密集的地方是大城市旧金山、 纽约、 波士顿，这些人口高度集中的城市，高度的把自己的选票投给了一个政客，以支持他获得普选的胜利，这能否代表广泛的全国性支持？当然，这种辩护对于现在很多人来说并不直观，因为差不多从20世纪60年代的民权运动开始，美国最高法院已经把一人一票一个代表对应一个选民，变成了一种潜移默化的预设，这是一种道德上的正确观点。所以说我今天这一期播客讨论的内容在当今我觉得美国和中文语境中都非常罕见。
S2：4 个窗口回退
来源片段
So they've ceased to become mass participation events. And the question I think that hangs over election campaigns, because that's what we're really talking about campaigns rather than election results, essentially do they matter? Are they ever not boring? Just on the issue of boring. So one of the things that Tom Pek picks up on that passage that I read is the contrast between the kind of the heightened rhetoric of Gladstone. Yes. And the pratfalling of Ed Davy. But one of the reasons for that is not just that the liberals are less likely to become a party of government. Doesn't it also reflect the fact that British politics has shrunk, that its horizons have diminished, that what Gladstone is talking about has global impact.
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为什么会在美国建国的时候被国父创造出来，放到宪法中，了解这个基础知识的人越来越少。所以说美到大选抱怨选举人团制度基本上已经成为了美国以及关心美国政治的人的一种政治正确吧。你跟很多人讨论美国大选有什么问题的时候，比如说尤其是今年绝大多数的人都会跟你抱怨，美国大选在他们眼中不民主有两个主要原因。第一个是选举人团，美国大选不是一人一票。第二个就是美国的两党制，两党制，正党制不民主，好像只要解决掉这两个问题，美国大选就可以变得更好。这是现在在我观察中非常多人在口头上会轻飘飘拿出来说的一个话。
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Because there was a feeling, when was it, in, so I guess 2009, that Gordon Brown had bottled it, that he'd planned to have an election and then didn't. Well, he'd planned to have an election in 2007, Tom, after he'd just come in. And that would have been the moment to have it before the financial crash. Oh, right, that's it. Yes, I'm misremembering. But by the time Callahan does go to the country in 79, I think that election is a bit of a foregone conclusion. The winter discontent has happened. There's a big shift to Thatcher among working class people, among young first time voters. They break overwhelmingly for Thatcher in 79. There's a couple of really fun things about that election. So in the public imagination, this is the great ideological showdown between Labour and Conservatism, between, you know, where Thatcherism arrives.
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我们在第82期播客人人质疑的在位总统应该放弃参选第二任吗？那集播客里讨论的1968年，美国总统竞选之后McGovern Committee改革带来的这个让这个初选民主化反而带来的是初选中民主进程的退步。我们在那个播客里面已经讨论过这个现象了。对所以在播客一开始我想说的是，在我的观察中，我听到的两种轻飘飘的最常见的。今年对于美国大选的抱怨就是第一，他怎么不是一人一票？我们能不能够取消选举人团？
来源片段
And if only the opposition had been able to work together, then that dreadful woman would never have had the chance to destroy this country. That's what people say. I think that is wrong. In fact, I know that's wrong because studies of the election have shown, I think beyond any reasonable doubt, that if the SDP Liberal Alliance had not existed, a lot of their voters would have voted conservative. Oh, that is interesting. And there is actually an argument that had they not existed. And by the way, it's impossible to imagine an alternative reality in which they don't exist. They always would have existed. I mean, don't forget the Liberals had won almost 20% of the vote in 1974.
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两个相对而言，最稳定的现代民主政权，那些比他们更加民主的政党，他带来的是一个不民主的国家政治，对吧？这个他反而无法保证这个国家的民主。所以说我觉得这是一个有意思的悖论，那些不停的叫嚣着，要让美国选举制更民主化的人。第一，他们对美国建国史缺乏了解，不知道这个选举制度一开始设置的初衷就不是为了民主。第二，他们对世界现代政治史缺乏了解，你把一个制度民主化之后，我们通常看到的不是民主的结果，
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Later when he lost unexpectedly, people said, oh, this tremendous hubris was what had undermined him, the American convention style campaign. I don't think that's true at all. I do, however, think that 92 is a challenge to my hypothesis that elections don't matter. Because I think this does matter. I think when elections matter, when campaigns matter, it's because they accentuate, they amplify anxieties that were latent, that already existed. So in this election, the anxiety is about basically the Labour will tax you. And the Tories advertising hammered on that relentlessly. Labour's tax bombshell.
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这个制度在被创造的时候，就不是奔着民主去的。所以我们今天要衡量，它不能够衡量它是否民主。我们要衡量的是它在建立初期想要满足的这些标准。我们不光要讨论选举人团这个制度的目的，还有它的实际作用。播客前半段介绍的是它的目的。我觉得最重要的一点是，我们在这里仍然应该强调，现在很少有人会记得美国国父麦迪逊代表的联邦党人文集中清楚的提到，为什么不一人一票？最重要的目的就是为了缓解多数派，可能会压迫少数派的担忧。
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And in particular, you'll not be surprised to hear about the right-wing assault on those voting rights that continues, has become incredibly reaching a higher and higher pitch. Yes. Which I think can be explained. But, you know, like to begin with, one way to think about this is that like, you know, when the Democrats lost the election in 2016, there was like a massive kind of inward looking, you know, soul searching thing of like, what's wrong with the party? What's wrong with our message? How do we win more people?
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那集播客里讨论的1968年，美国总统竞选之后McGovern Committee改革带来的这个让这个初选民主化反而带来的是初选中民主进程的退步。我们在那个播客里面已经讨论过这个现象了。对所以在播客一开始我想说的是，在我的观察中，我听到的两种轻飘飘的最常见的。今年对于美国大选的抱怨就是第一，他怎么不是一人一票？我们能不能够取消选举人团？第二，为什么只有两个政党？两个政党制，为什么要存在？下周一，我准备跟我的本科生讨论美国政党为什么要存在美国两党制的意义是什么？今天在这期播客，我们回答第一个问题，选举人团存在有什么意义？
来源片段
Just a resistance to giving the massive people the franchise and especially kind of sorting who the good voters are based on their education or status or skin color. Though, I think that one of the themes that we've identified here when we talk about the franchise and the Republican or conservative attitude towards democracy as such, that there is that long-standing trend of sort of patrician, anti-democratic impulses, often white supremacists, anti-democratic impulses, as we've talked about multiple times, the National Review, you know, sort of endorsing
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所以说我们今天在讨论美国大选制度，美国总统的时候，我们听到绝大多数的抱怨，说的是这个总统选举是不够民主，不满足，不符合民主进程，不符合民主政体。说这些话的人一定忘记，在这个职位被建立的时候，美国国父最关心的一点不是民主，不是不主要是美国总统能否反映人民的意志。
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as a result of those crises 100% of them voted against it right? Yes. I mean the only way in which they have decided that they can meet the emotional and psychic needs of their base is by joining in the demonization of easily marginalized others who seem to pose some kind of threat to their self-concept and their concept of normalcy but I think it's a thin ideological scaffolding not that it won't work but it's nothing
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这些不好的东西，我全盘承认我同意，但是他们最大的问题就在于很少有人会去考虑，你取消了选举人团，你搞了一人一票，他真的就能够解决这些在我眼中更加危险的政治问题吗？